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    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    Thoughts and feedback very much appreciated! :)
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter

    Generally dig the direction (governance token = defensible). I'd mention the "blockchain-enabled early adopter financial incentives" to your thoughts at the top on diminished network effects: https://medium.com/@RhysLindmark/macro-blockchain-1-the-end-of-aggregation-theory-ad199a0c03d8

    Also, I'd love to see a follow up on the experiments happening with various governance models that you describe.

    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    @RhysLindmark_twitter me too! I think each of those modes deserves a whole deep dive, and very excited to get some implementations out into the wild that can be tested an analyzed.
    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    Regarding early adopter financial incentives, I think its a powerful force but ultimately begs the question how do you make it sustainable in the longer term? Personally I think that line of thinking leads straight to a crypto universal basic income (which I’m a huge fan of), but I think jumping straight to that conclusion skips too many intermediary steps and takes focus away from what the immediate next steps are…
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    Yeah, I'm not really arguing for cryptoUBI, just arguing that part of the reason for diminished defensibility (increased exit) are those early adopter financial incentives.
    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    definitely!
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    @lkngtn great post. And great feedback Rhys - made me go through the agg theory idea again to see how tokens / decentralization / governance might impact the theory. You both spurred me into action to get my post out. Hopefully I'll get it out tomorrow.
    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    Looking forward to reading it @rflxvty_twitter :)
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    Yay, spurring each other to action!
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter

    Btw, I'm going to start experimenting with hosting "Decentralized Governance" group calls (aka Masterminds/Circles) to try to help everyone here co-evolve this field.

    If you're interested in joining a call next week, please note your availability here: http://whenisgood.net/catpd5s

    (Also, note that this is part of a larger "ETHCommons" vision outlined here: https://twitter.com/RhysLindmark/status/941095501784428545)

    Thanks and let me know if you have any questions! (This is experimental :smile: )

    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    @RhysLindmark_twitter is this the same call as cryptoeconomic primitives one, or a seperate one?
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    Separate!
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    https://medium.com/@reflexivity/decentralized-governance-part-2-governance-and-ai-kitties-7e10f3bc3f66
    Alex Stokes
    @ralexstokes
    @lkngtn @RhysLindmark_twitter what is the cryptoeconomic primitives one? that sounds interesting!
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    @ralexstokes you should join: https://gitter.im/Curation-Markets/Lobby (and check out https://medium.com/@RhysLindmark/18-mike-goldin-adchain-token-curated-registries-an-emerging-cryptoeconomic-primitive-682b442a7822 or https://medium.com/@RhysLindmark/6-simon-de-la-rouviere-on-curation-markets-7ef131df859e)
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Governance post by Vitalik: http://vitalik.ca/general/2017/12/17/voting.html
    Luke Duncan
    @lkngtn
    Great post. I think the conclusion that it’s not an either or proposition but a balance that needs to be struck is something I strongly agree with.
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter

    Hey all! We're going to run one meeting:

    2pm Mountain Standard Time (GMT -7) on Thursday. Join here: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/n3mzpeytlnemldnxbc45lkvlkae

    The goal of this "kick off" meeting is primarily to: connect with others who are working on decentralized governance, chat about current challenges/experiments, and share learnings. (They're being loosely modeled off of the ETH Core Dev meetings.) They will be publicly livestreamed (transparency!). We'll be running them as "lean coffee" meetings, where we crowd source an agenda, vote on it to prioritize, and then timebox each agenda item. Here's the Trello board that we'll use (feel free to add cards to the "Circle #1") list beforehand! https://trello.com/invite/b/z17lLfm7/aa2a1fa4d9f17488c01bc0201d246eee/decentralized-governance-circle

    Thanks all, see some of you on Thursday, let me know if you have any questions, and remember that this is a shared experiment :)

    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Great - really looking forward to it.
    geleeroyale
    @geleeroyale
    Hello community!
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    Yoyoyoyoyoyo!
    YO
    matrixbot
    @matrixbot
    @geleeroyale:matrix.org In case you are using Riot - this room has been succesfully bridged to: #gitter_decentralized-governance=2Flobby:matrix.org
    @geleeroyale:matrix.org ;-)
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    Woaaaahhhhh. That's awesome. I don't exactly know what that means, but I'm super into "cross platform interoperability" (Gitter, Riot, Rocket.chat, Slack, etc.)
    geleeroyale
    @geleeroyale
    It means you can access this room in riot as well - or any other client supporting the matrix protocol
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    Chat in 8 min here! https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/srtf7pbfgve4lmmoq4sud3slsqe
    Rhys Lindmark
    @RhysLindmark_twitter
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DLIHUQuh2szG5UR0cdAX6XBEn7uNcIGmGWsP8bTY-TI/edit?usp=sharing
    https://trello.com/invite/b/z17lLfm7/aa2a1fa4d9f17488c01bc0201d246eee/decentralized-governance-circle
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Thanks a million, Rhys. Great call. Looking forward to doing it again. Loved the format, Trello, minutes, timers etc. It's a great way to do things... if I can stick to timing ;-)
    Video is here for those who missed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no8fB2cZ--g
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Just a few thought for the New Year...
    1. I really think exiting is over-rated as a concept in governance.
    1. Nick Szabo was wrong to say that we shouldn't design governance systems because open source governance models will be fine.
    1. Gitter is weird and replaces 2 with 1 when you do a list like this.
    1. It also replaces 3 with 1 and probably four
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Right this is not working :smile:
    Three - we have to sort out this idea that it's OK to have "one token - one vote" governance. Surely u don't have to be a genius to see where that ends up when you have liquid token markets.
    Four - the answer to three can't be removing pseudonymity. It may be a form of complex interactions between liquid democracy, with some strong reputation system for delegates combined with sortition, where we randomly select people to act as a citizen's assembly.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Five - DAO's are fine for small scale networks where a community essentially builds a private economy. And one token one vote is fine for these systems. In these systems there is plenty of room for a cambrian explosion of experimental models.
    Six - so the solutions I am talking about are for massive scale public permissionless networks with very real network effects that make exiting very painful. In theory a citizen can rip up their passport but it doesn't get them anywhere they want to be. Leaving a network of millions or billions of users, dapps, business partners, friends, your favourite AI bots etc. and waiting for everyone to join you could be financially prohibitive if all your income comes from the old network.
    Seven - it's not on-chain vs off-chain either - it's always a complex web of checks and balances.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Eight - and it's not a cambrian explosion because only a handful of networks will reach the global scale. so we have to make a best effort to get the design right up from, not overly rely on experimentation.
    Nine - I really want to get to the bottom of n^2 vs nlogn vs n vs logn. Which networks will have global scale and what are their network effects - so we can quantify the real pain of exiting.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    I'll write some of that down in a blog post. {fin}
    fmatan
    @fmatan

    Hi everyone,

    my name is Matan Field, working on DAOstack (www.daostack.io), previously worked on La'Zooz and Backfeed. Decentralized governance protocols (and platforms) was my main topic of research (and dev) for the past 4 years. (Before that have worked on a postdoc in string theory.)

    This is a first in a series of blogposts about decentralized governance, DAOs and DAOstack:

    https://medium.com/daostack/decentralized-governance-first-principles-1fc6eaa492ed

    I would love any feedback, questions and other interest, here or privately matan@daostack.io .

    Jim Waugh
    @jwaup_twitter
    hi everyone ~ i'll be at ETHDenver this weekend, and i'm hoping to gather anyone working on cryptoeconomic primitives or decentralized governance
    maybe around lunch Friday or Saturday?
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Hey @fmatan and @jwaup_twitter thanks for joining in. Hearing a lot about ETHDenver. Sounds great. Enjoy. And Matan - will go through the blog post now and get back with feedback.
    fmatan
    @fmatan
    Hey @jwaup_twitter , would love to gather for lunch