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    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    1. I really think exiting is over-rated as a concept in governance.
    1. Nick Szabo was wrong to say that we shouldn't design governance systems because open source governance models will be fine.
    1. Gitter is weird and replaces 2 with 1 when you do a list like this.
    1. It also replaces 3 with 1 and probably four
    Right this is not working :smile:
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Three - we have to sort out this idea that it's OK to have "one token - one vote" governance. Surely u don't have to be a genius to see where that ends up when you have liquid token markets.
    Four - the answer to three can't be removing pseudonymity. It may be a form of complex interactions between liquid democracy, with some strong reputation system for delegates combined with sortition, where we randomly select people to act as a citizen's assembly.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Five - DAO's are fine for small scale networks where a community essentially builds a private economy. And one token one vote is fine for these systems. In these systems there is plenty of room for a cambrian explosion of experimental models.
    Six - so the solutions I am talking about are for massive scale public permissionless networks with very real network effects that make exiting very painful. In theory a citizen can rip up their passport but it doesn't get them anywhere they want to be. Leaving a network of millions or billions of users, dapps, business partners, friends, your favourite AI bots etc. and waiting for everyone to join you could be financially prohibitive if all your income comes from the old network.
    Seven - it's not on-chain vs off-chain either - it's always a complex web of checks and balances.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Eight - and it's not a cambrian explosion because only a handful of networks will reach the global scale. so we have to make a best effort to get the design right up from, not overly rely on experimentation.
    Nine - I really want to get to the bottom of n^2 vs nlogn vs n vs logn. Which networks will have global scale and what are their network effects - so we can quantify the real pain of exiting.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    I'll write some of that down in a blog post. {fin}
    fmatan
    @fmatan

    Hi everyone,

    my name is Matan Field, working on DAOstack (www.daostack.io), previously worked on La'Zooz and Backfeed. Decentralized governance protocols (and platforms) was my main topic of research (and dev) for the past 4 years. (Before that have worked on a postdoc in string theory.)

    This is a first in a series of blogposts about decentralized governance, DAOs and DAOstack:

    https://medium.com/daostack/decentralized-governance-first-principles-1fc6eaa492ed

    I would love any feedback, questions and other interest, here or privately matan@daostack.io .

    Jim Waugh
    @jwaup_twitter
    hi everyone ~ i'll be at ETHDenver this weekend, and i'm hoping to gather anyone working on cryptoeconomic primitives or decentralized governance
    maybe around lunch Friday or Saturday?
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Hey @fmatan and @jwaup_twitter thanks for joining in. Hearing a lot about ETHDenver. Sounds great. Enjoy. And Matan - will go through the blog post now and get back with feedback.
    fmatan
    @fmatan
    Hey @jwaup_twitter , would love to gather for lunch
    hey @rflxvty_twitter , looking forward to your feedback; perhaps by then i'll have the second post out ;)
    Jim Waugh
    @jwaup_twitter
    @fmatan cool, we can meet somewhere by the food trucks at noon
    Jim Waugh
    @jwaup_twitter
    @fmatan I’m grabbing food now, then heading up to the 3rd level
    fmatan
    @fmatan
    hey @jwaup_twitter missed you yesterday, wanna meet today/tomorrow? let's communicate on Telegram @MatanField
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Hey @fmatan - the good thing about it taking me so long to find time to read the first post, is that I won't have so long to wait for the next one! As first posts go it's definitely very intriguing. Just digging into the white paper now.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Some ongoing Twitter discussions... Kyle Samani argues centralised governance wins out for now (https://twitter.com/KyleSamani/status/968308830408007680) ... Chris Burniske suggests we need ID and private voting here: https://twitter.com/cburniske/status/968974019700707329 ... and nice ideas from Chris here... https://twitter.com/cburniske/status/968829591421898757 ... love the line from Joel Monegro: "@jmonegro coined a cool phrase to represent an appreciating value of governance as a cryptonetwork scales: increasing marginal cost of consensus." In a world of zero marginal cost products - it does seem like governance cost per user will rise with the size of the network ... and Nick Szabo added this comment: https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/964212372624703488 ... "we can think of governance as having an argument surface: the more kinds of decisions there are to argue over, the less functional the institution will be." ... Distense recommends (https://twitter.com/distenseorg/status/966758155219685376) this post from the IETF: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7282.txt
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    A couple more links on governance... I like the Decred approach for timestamped proposals... https://github.com/decred/politeia/ ... also we definitely need a governance conference, so anyone who is in a position to support Tim Bansemer in his efforts should do so: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dm4XWTmdjZ1TDWAnnaIWpZ3fVWQMue8K3C2SrP89VVw/edit#
    Dylan Gessner
    @d_gess_twitter
    Some good point-counterpoint posts on governance from Vitalik and Daniel Larimer. Vitalik argues for systems that provide economic incentives for good governance with the actual decision making off-chain. Larimer argues that decision making on issues of 'right and wrong' are inherently subjective, and that relying only on cryptoeconomic incentives for governance will not be enough.
    reminds me of @rflxvty_twitter 's posts from the beginning of the year that governance will always be a mix of consensus design and 'soft' forms of debate that will be the most effective forms of overall network governance
    JustinBanon
    @JustinBanon
    Hi all, in NY from London for Consensus and Token Summit, are there any decentralized governance meetups this week? Looking forward to some interesting discussions...
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Hi Justin. I couldn't make it over so hope you find a governance meetup. Haven't heard about any so far. Would love to be there so have a great week.
    Here is a new project I'm working on called Consensus Clubs. The intention is to reinventing early-stage capital by bringing together ideas from curation markets, bonding curves, DAOs, investing clubs, PoS-style and staking / slashing. The plan is to build in a governance engine to support lots of different governance models for clubs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tsRYjHX0Oc
    If you think it's worth doing then please like the video - as we're trying to get to Hong Kong for the EOS hackathon.
    JustinBanon
    @JustinBanon
    Hi Brendan@Reflexivity looks like a good concept, especially as I am looking for investment for a project to decentralise the loyalty rewards industry. Have liked the video.
    JustinBanon
    @JustinBanon
    Great post by the scholars at RMIT. I just bumped into Jason Potts minutes ago at Consensus! https://medium.com/@cryptoeconomics/crypto-constitutionalism-c25d0c503ac?source=linkShare-b13262b21fc0-1526494447
    Seun Lanlege
    @seunlanlege
    @rflxvty_twitter nice!
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    thanks!
    orbl
    @orbl
    Hi there! Sorry in advanced if I missed it, but in the earlier posts here there is a reference to putting compiling links to good sources on governance, was this ever done? If yes, could you post a link to it here? Would love to read up on it.
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    Thank you @orbl for the prod: here is a first stab... https://github.com/rflxvty/decentralized-governance
    orbl
    @orbl
    Thanks, looking forward to getting a bit deeper into the topic of decentralized governance! Do you recommend reading the links in the order they are listed?
    Brendan@Reflexivity
    @rflxvty_twitter
    yeah I'd start with the top ones. I put the projects in alphabetical order. I'd suggest reading Messari and the token curated registries work together. And I really like Apiary from Aragon. It's a really well thought through approach. Dfinity explain the concept of liquid democracy very well. The history of casper is a long read but it gives a real insight into the problems of designing systems that are bribery resistant. And I'd read Vitalik (first two in Ethereum) and Dan Larimer (Eos) together to get two different perspectives on the challenges. Eos has been getting a hard time on governance - and not all of it is warranted.
    Ricardo Murillo
    @ricardowall13_twitter
    Hi friends, I want to announce an open source tool: Hurley, the way to set up and manage your development environment for Hyperledger Fabric. Hurley works well with Golang, Node, and Convector Smart Contracts.
    What do you think? Let us know!
    http://bit.ly/2sisZ6E