These are chat archives for FreeCodeCamp/DataScience

6th
Dec 2015
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 16:52

Hi everyone!

Not much to say for this week, just a few links:
the chart presented during the summit

We presented products from the codepen analysis as well as the top100 roelver project.

In the News:
A delightful visualization of species in danger of extinction... Have a look! http://projects.propublica.org/extinctions/

John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 19:52
new to FCC and was wondering if anyone has done any sampling on how long it takes campers to complete the later stages - what the median and deviations might be
Rex Schrader
@SaintPeter
Dec 06 2015 19:53
@johnlreavis We're working on answering exactly that question. I think we have some data on Zipline completion.
@johnlreavis It's pretty hard to judge the later parts because the data gets so noisy.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 19:54
hi @johnlreavis: as @SaintPeter mentions I think there is no data available about that yet... keep in contact! we are trying to see if we can answer some of those questions...
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 19:56
@SaintPeter @evaristoc yeah - noise seems like it would be a massive issue, esp if experienced devs are using fcc as a resource to prep for interviews. assuming once more certificates are handed out the idea is to use that as a pure sample group?
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:08
@johnlreavis yes... about experienced dev, I think it will be a bit harder to distinguish them a priori, although we are aware that the situation exists, indeed...
I think @SaintPeter was also referring to the fact that part of the tracing is incomplete for things like ziplines or basejumps because most of the actitivity occurs outside FCC.
Another thing is the constant change in the curriculum and the changes in deadlines: this year the curriculum has been changed at least 2 times...
And you are right, @johnlreavis: better to work on a sample... I don' t think that we need more people to complete the training before starting, but that would certainly help...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:11
It's likely important to note that the data can never be completely accurate as to the necessary time investment because different people have different priorities. I for instance, could likely do all the base jumps in a day but have gone a week without doing any - not because I wasn't here and active, or because they're too difficult - solely because I decided to up my score on CodeWars instead as a bit of a break.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:12
@P1xt absolutely... that will happens everywhere in the analysis, totally agree
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:16
@evaristoc Yep, you can never know exactly how much time was spent on any item as you only know submission times and related "prior" submissions but that's all based on when someone clicked submit, not necessarily when they did the bulk of the work. And, you've no way of knowing whether someone had a week off work, or is working two jobs, raising a toddler, and coding for an hour a night before bed when the kid finally goes to sleep :) ... you could, however, get some good statistics that filter outliers to quiet some of the noise though.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:18
@P1xt that is a good point: it is not possible to register the activity outside FCC, by any means... one of the most important issues in online analytics, particularly PREDICTIVE analytics... the solution is not trivial, but for the moment is not a major concern: for now we are more after exploratory/descriptive models of what can be observed... you end "hiding" the no-observables under an statistic model that explain the things that you are able to see and assume that that is a possible general behaviour of the population...
@P1xt :) raising a toddler... that remains me I have one too...
I wonder if that is also a possible behaviour of the population...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:22
@evaristoc lol :)
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:24
@P1xt and @johnlreavis: if you are ok, I will put you eventually in the fixed list of people that I call every time I report here (a weekly "digest" )...
Also, if you have small (or big!) ideas you want to test and some insights of programming you could maybe think about a project too? Better if you organise in groups: I can guarantee that the experience will be richer...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:25
One hypothesis I have that would be interesting to prove out is that increased participation on gitter correlates somewhat directly to an increased time to completion. Though, I'm not sure how telling the result would actually be in those cases where one is primarily chatting as a means to gain assistance with the curriculum.
@evaristoc I saw your post (I believe it was yours) in the main chat earlier. That's how I even knew this room existed. Please feel free to add me to any distributions.
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:26
@evaristoc @P1xt likewise
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:27
@P1xt I have done some preliminary analysis around that topic, just to test some metrics required for that... they are in this room and in the current repo...
I will share that with you later... Thanks for joining!!
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:28
@evaristoc I'm relatively certain that the possession of one or more toddlers isn't entirely representative of the community at large ... based solely on the fact that I neither have nor want one ;)
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:28
@johnlreavis are you new to FCC... are you also totally new to programming?
@P1xt :)
@johnlreavis good luck with the training! JS could be very demanding (at least it has been for me...) but it is worth learning...
@P1xt how are you? Also new to programming?
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:30
@roelver pretty sure the extract in use isn't comprehensive. I've been around 2 weeks, am all the way up to base jumps and the top100 app doesn't find me at all.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:31
@P1xt :) you have to do more than basejumps to be in that list, my friend...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:32
@evaristoc I'm relatively new to FCC (I was here at the beginning of the year just as terakilobyte was starting what would become base jumps but then work got busy and I just returned last week). I'm not, however, new to programming (just new to javascript).
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:32
I am not either, shame of me...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:33
@evaristoc I've done all waypoints, all ziplines, all bonfires ... and am now working on basejumps ;)
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:33
@P1xt yes, same with me... I have been more into python, R, and similars...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:34
Most my experience is c/c++/assembly and more recently php/python and some R.
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:34
@evaristoc not necessarily new to programming - I have an MIS degree from 3 years ago and done lot of SQL and VBA in consulting and as a desk analyst
new to JS, dabbled in the codecademy starters.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:35
@P1xt... hmmmm.... you looks more like an exception more than a rule in the way people are going through the curriculum... I hope I get your data if I make a random sample... although it will looks more like an outlier for sure...
I will have to clean you out :)
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:36
@evaristoc yep, I'd have finished the full curriculum in a week if I hadn't slowed down and swapped to Code Wars for more javascript experience before tackling the base jumps (but, I'm an outlier with two decades programming experience). What, in addition to the curriculum is required to show up on the top100?
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:38
@johnlreavis look: I think having a bit of VBA on your back will help with JS a lot... at least you will be able to understand all this points and syntax issues I have tried to avoid... I did some VBA in the past, but no really that much..
Actually, more Excel oriented...
@P1xt Helping people in the rooms...
You get points for helping them...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:39
@evaristoc I've got plenty - o - points
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:40
But in two weeks of training I really doubt you will get enough, I am afraid...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:40
about @P1xt
CamperBot
@camperbot
Dec 06 2015 20:40
:star: 501 | @p1xt | http://www.freecodecamp.com/p1xt
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:40
Oh!!
Ok...
What?
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:40
I've been helping people, have finished most the map, and posted a bunch of news stories
and the top100 can't find me
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:43
@P1xt I checked: you certainly don' t qualify for the All Timers, but at least you should in the 30days one... hmmmm... then it is not updated...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:43
Yeah, I literally started from zero two weeks ago.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:44
look at that!!
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:44
Look at what?
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:46
two weeks
the training is certainly not that hard for those who really have the background and the experience
but why are you both taking the program for? @P1xt and @johnlreavis?
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:48
@evaristoc I actually knew little to nothing about backend javascript and was interested in the mean stack.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:48
front-end? react? or back-end?
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:48
yeah - that is certainly a good data point - that a c++ dev can crush the coursework
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:48
@johnlreavis I think though too...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:49
@evaristoc I don't care about react. I kind of tend to think as react as a cop-out for whiners that can't cut it with angular and take the easy way out even though angular's the superior framework.
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:49
I'm taking to learn actual software dev - looked at in person bootcamps before I came across this. I'll be taking some time to travel and want to see how much i can learn on my own
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:49
@P1xt ok... and how was your eye left after knowing that they are going for react instead?
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:50
I'd like to go work for a startup eventually while continuing to learn more - get into more advanced data science down the road
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:50
I kind of think less of them for taking the easy way out. But, it can't hurt to learn React in addition to Angular, so I'll learn it ;)
I'll use angular for anything that doesn't explicitly specify react though.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:51
@johnlreavis ok... for what I have seem, things like javascript are not still ready for embracing those algos yet... perhaps after the 6 comes, maybe...
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:51
At work everything is excel and I'm tired of it. Such a crutch.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:52
@johnlreavis excel works, but... then you grow...
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:52
And yes - will look to learn python next - but it seems best to learn a full stack and learn how to build things first, then worry about complexity. walk before you run
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:53
I plan to learn a bit more java then dive into Android programming next.
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 20:54
@evaristoc yes - imo if you are good with excel you hardly need any scripting - you learn the tricks and handle any math on the front and data on the back and just automate with VBA
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:54
@johnlreavis... ok... python is a bit easier, eh? but as I said, VBA experience can help with JS, if I am not wrong it is also c++-ish...
@P1xt I am planning to stick to high-level for the time being... more into analysis than development... there is a lot you can do with just having JS by hand anyway:
http://react.rocks/example/universityjs-react-drone
Check that! Maybe was posted by you, @P1xt? I found it in the FCC News once...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 20:58
@evaristoc Without a doubt. JavaScript is plenty to craft an entire career around. I doubt that was my link, I'd never post react resources, mostly I post resources for learning more algorithms and math.
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 20:59
@P1xt yeah... I think I recognise your signature... I think I read one or two...
I recommend to check the full fragment of the video... it is really enjoyable! And it is a very good group, that one...
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 21:01
@evaristoc python is easier than JS?
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:01
I am absolutely certain about that, for sure...
Caroline Dikibo
@cdikibo
Dec 06 2015 21:02
Python is better for math....
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 21:02
Yeah, python is a far sight better for math than JS.
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 21:03
@cdikibo @evaristoc @P1xt knew it was good for math, data - had not heard that it was easier but I did prefer it to ruby on codecademy
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:04
The Zen of Python
Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
they live to it... I am a real python fan...
But we are in a JS training... so...
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 21:05
Yeah, of the "big 3" for backend web development right now (Python, PHP, Ruby) ... Python makes it far, far, easier and cleaner than the other two to do anything of interesting mathematical complexity
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 21:07
plus it seems the moocs etc are all leaning towards python as an intro language
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:07
Many people will find this one not a JS thing:
Flat is better than nested.
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 21:07
JS is all about the nesting
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 21:08
nesting great as long as an editor does it for me
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:08
But when it is about capturing data in async, nodejs is far better...
I came here because I would like to master Rx...
Caroline Dikibo
@cdikibo
Dec 06 2015 21:10
I'm cringing internally Javascript and datavis?
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:11
I think it is one of the most interesting techs so far, a revolution... and nodejs is closer to it than python...
but for CPU and even GPU intensive stuff for analytics, go python as an option... I am not still into GPU though... that is CUDA and similars...
It is C... at the very low level...
@cdikibo there will be some visualizations very soon... there it is your chance!
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 21:15
Sweet, I figured out how to force the top100 to look me up. All you have to do is follow yourself, then it looks you up and adds you to the list!
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:15
Cheating, man..
Caroline Dikibo
@cdikibo
Dec 06 2015 21:15
I wonder what will be there in the new year...and how quickly i can finish it and get the certificate
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:15
(I will do that too...)
Caroline Dikibo
@cdikibo
Dec 06 2015 21:16
I really need a new full time job ....
evaristoc
@evaristoc
Dec 06 2015 21:17
Well people, keep hanging around! time for other endeavour...
@cdikibo keep going and you might see something that suits you... good luck!
John Reavis
@johnlreavis
Dec 06 2015 21:23
good to meet everyone as well. definitely faster without having the chat open
P1xt
@P1xt
Dec 06 2015 21:24
On that note ... time to close chat and actually do a base jump