These are chat archives for FreezingMoon/AncientBeast

8th
Mar 2016
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:03
@tukkek understood, there's a green dot showing up over my avatar around here
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:03
hey dk
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:03
but yeah, that's the controversial stuff when it comes to gitter/slack and alternatives, as they are in between real time and offline communication, meaning anything can be expected, which can be a little stressful for some people or generate a lot of chit-chat
you can think of this more like email though and write whenever you want :)
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:05
yea but i was hoping to catch you for more of a talk if you had the time
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:06
Alright, fair enough, hehe
what's on your mind?
the new patches should help out with ability upgrade coding/testing, setting works now
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:07
i'm making a push to github, could you clone and build my repository? it's a bit of work but i think it will be worth it :)
if you have the time ofc
i will be doing some setup here meanwhile
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:08
ok
gonna test your DP patch real quick
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:08
thx! you can use a --depth 1 for a faster cloning
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:08
I use Git Cola
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:08
can u test that after we're done maybe? :) im kind excited to show you this
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:09
ok
what do you want me to clone exactly?
after you've cloned it swtich to branch 'mp' git checkout mp or whatever
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:11
done cloning, will try to figure out the branch thingy now from this UI...
I'm still figuring things out, guessing that mp stands for multiplayer xD
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:14
could be xD
i left some details to work out as you cloned
but hopefully it wont be anything major
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:17
gitcola is confusing me
might as well gotten the zip xD
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:17
if you want to down the zip wait a bit further
there is one line of code i need to update :P
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:17
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:17
i guess you could update it manually as well if you'd rather down the zip :D
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:17
trying to figure out why this gitter displays 2 of the same notification
I have unlimited bandwidth and repo is somewhat smallish
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:19
which notification?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:20
for this channel (chrome feature thingy)
let me know when that patch is done
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:20
i see, probably a bug seems like the site is in beta yet
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:20
yeah, and on top of that, I'm using some alpha version of it xD
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:21
let me make a small test here first, everything seems to be ok
(so far)
ok everything seems fine
let me commit this change
alright can you do a pull and run the game now? make sure you're at commit d4f2d0f75a8af3b57a96fcc7a841e587fac71691
don't start the game just tell me when you open it pls
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:25
been looking over the code changes, stuff is in the right direction (except spacings, but that can be "auto linted" with grunt later on)
ok, sec
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:26
oh yeah, this is a proof-of-concept type of thing, a small project that could either work or fail miserably
so i didn't mind code style or quality too much, just the bare minimum to make things work
but thx anyway :)
for saying it's sort-of-ok :D
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:28
think I figured things out, installing grunt / deps atm
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:28
oki no hurry, brewing myself some coffee over here!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:29
I'm in the menu
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:29
alright 1m hold your horses
before we start a disclaimer this is very experimental but it's working
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:30
:) yeah, noticed the TODO's
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:30
but let's take things slowly for example if you skip the turn too fast or do weird things everything will fall apart and we will have to restart
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:30
but you were trying to split common stuff into side-based stuff, which is the logical step
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:30
no biggie but just so you take it easy
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:30
so no worries
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:30
what do u mean side based?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:30
ok
like, embrace the concept of multiple players
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:31
apart from that i haven't tested very much so i will ask that you follow my directions for the first test ok?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:31
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:31
yeah, it's pretty primitive so far
coffee will have to wait then...
pick a number
and tell me
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:32
it's not even playable as hotseat atm :D so yeah
1
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:32
1 is bad i think i've used it :D let's go with 10 then, start a game, you will be player 1 and enter game 10
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:33
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:33
just move your priest around and finish the turn
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:33
how to enter a certain game?
(im seeing the old pre-match menu
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:33
you will be prompted when you start the game (TODO stuff)
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:34
oh
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:34
got it?
dont summon anything on 1st turn
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:35
oh
bacon
did already
what now?
saying waiting for a while now
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:35
it's ok it should work
i will move down then but please follow my guidelines for this match
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:36
alright, I see :D
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:36
done here, tell me if my move appears over there
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:36
yes
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:36
great :D the rest should work fine then
come towards me and finish the turn
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:37
waiting
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:37
i said to take thing slowly xD why you do this to me
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:37
hmm
do you have to type code by hand atm or wut?
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:38
nope, just playing like you!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:38
hehe
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:38
i'm not sure all units are working so maybe we will find a bug with those
but the ones i tested are fine
it's your turn now, right?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:39
yeah
game froze thanks to Uncle Fungus Frogger Jump, sigh
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:39
yea man, i asked you to follow what i said to you xD
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:39
anyway, pretty cool, this is exciting :D
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:39
it's
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:40
so retry without using abilities (could use just normal attacks maybe)?
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:40
let's try again just so you can get to kill a unit of mine
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:40
game id 11?
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:40
yeah let me tell what to do this time, it will be fast, just a couple of minutes
this time let me be player one so you can see the other side
ok?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:40
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:41
start a new game with player 2, game 11
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:41
so any unit possible, just the first usable abilities (attacks) should pretty much work, not freeze the game, though attacks don't 100% match tooltips
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:42
on your turn summon a swine thug and come near to me
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:42
so I basically joined "midgame", kinda like a spectator, interesting
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:42
no actually you were supposed to be able to move since that is the first turn for the blue player
oh ok
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:42
summoned on 1st turn again hmm
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:43
i see, now easy-peasy just come near me, don't summon any more units and kill my bunny with your thug's W and E attacks, should take 2 turns
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:43
snow bunny is a bit slippery, will try
"waiting......"
skipped multiple times
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:44
then you probably broke the game xD
wanna start again? i told you to take it easy xD
oh no it's working
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:44
works, snow bunny passive broken, as most things xD
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:45
yay for lucky code ahahha
just finish the bunny and we're good
just so you see death is working as well
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:45
I think now it froze
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:45
wanna try again, same plan?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:46
swine thug turn came and snow bunny tried using passive (which shouldn't trigger like this)
use a different unit instead of snow bunny, seems problematic regarding passive ability
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:46
just avoid doing anything that is unnecessary like skipping many times or pressing buttons while it's not your turn
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:46
use gumble perhaps
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:46
can you please follow my simple plans? no need to hurry, bunny should die fine
if you stick with W and E powers from thug
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:47
bunny froze game because of it's buggy passive
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:47
then we can try other units :)
it's not that
trust me
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:47
it freezes regular game as well for sure, trust me
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:47
can we try again please?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:47
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:47
i will be player 1 let me create a game
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:47
a lot of stuff freezes game, hence the serious need for new gameplay maintainer
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:48
oh it could be a bug in your browser, but bunny is working fine there, let's try once more only
if it bugs again we change plans
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:48
even if flawless online multiplayer is coded, gameplay is still broken atm
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:49
ok be player 2, game 99
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:49
bunny shouldn't trigger passive when other melee turn is starting turn, will test again later and open an issue
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:49
i noticed the game is pretty heavy for a 2d turn based game as well, could be improved as far as performance goes i think
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:49
yeah, it could be improved a lot; it used to be even worse though
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:50
summon a thug again and come near me objective is to defeat my bunny with W and E in 2 turns attacking
if no bug happens
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:50
ok, bug might be avoided if swine thug doesn't remain next to bunny at end of turn
froze again, because of bunny hopping
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:52
hmm maybe something with your browser
here it worked fine
sry for not listening to you but here it worked ok
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:52
understood, but some bugs manifest like this for some reason
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:53
we can try other stuff if you want or i can tell you a bit more about what i've done
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:53
use gumble
98
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:53
ok, we count down to 1 again xD
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:54
:D
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:54
have u done your turn?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:54
nope
im player 2, joined and kinda frozen
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:55
i though you were gonna be 1
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:55
haha
what now?
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:55
i'll create a new game so we can fool around a bit more
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:55
ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:56
join game 95 as player 2
you said fungus is buggy too for you?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:57
the leap is buggy
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:57
do you mean special ability?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:58
Frogger Leap
yeah
assigned Uncle Fungus to the person who applied after you, but seen no action so far
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:58
i told you to take it slow but you just don't listen do you? xD
did it freeze the game?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:58
nah, was chating
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 19:59
it worked O.o
sorcery!
loool
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 19:59
haha, 4 real
too bad the effects from Magma Spawn attack don't show up, all the sprite based effects are broken now, sigh
even less of that bare minimum eye candy atm
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:01
well the game looks pretty good anyway, just a matter of fixing things slowly and steadily
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:01
looking forward for mp to update between actions more often :)
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:01
it would be nice, as i said it's the very minimum for now, i'll explain better later
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:01
yup
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:02
i think it might have frozen here.. did u finish your turn?
maybe something to do with the new unit i summoned
almost got your magma guy too :D
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:03
was confused, guess MS took so much damage it didn't regained any energy for abilities, sigh
Chimera does a ton of ranged / area damage atm
and even melee
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:03
yeah it seems like it does, haven't tested the units too much tbh
the game froze for me here, just left it
probably a bug on some unit
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:04
oh ok
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:05
i thought we were gonna be able to play a bit more today :P but at least you see that mp is possible and it's underway! pretty cool huh?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:05
we can properly play via teamviewer provided the abilities are fixed and there are no freezes
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:06
yea there's a lot of work to be done.. pretty much now only movement and basic attacks are working
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:06
but yeah, pretty cool stuff, it's been a while that I've played a bit, really missing the good old times when the prototype was quite playable and fun
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:06
effects, drops, traps and so on aren't being sent over the network, it will be a lot of work to get it done
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:07
mhm
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:07
yeah i was thinking 'they got such a great game it's a shame they can't play it' - this is why i started writing the multiplayer code.. i though it was gonna be faster but it took me only 1 day and a half.. not too bad i guess? :)
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:08
indeed, really nice progress so far
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:08
the problem is how the code is structured now
i'll write a more detailed explanation over email so you can have it archived
but basically the game uses function callbacks for EVERYTHING
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:09
when prototype worked, I was sad that I couldn't properly enjoy playing it with @Zephyrum - his internet was crappy (he's from Brazil too)
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:09
and callbacks (code) cannot be sent over the internet for various reasons so pretty much everything that is coded using callbacks now will need to be reprogrammed for internet play
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:09
indeed
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:10
but as you can even 1 day of work will make more things playable so slowly it's possible to refactor things so they can work without calllbacks
i tried using the existing log as a way to make multiplayer work at first
but the log, which you would imagine is just text and data actually logs A TON of callback every single move so it was impossible
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:11
mhm, anyway, that would be rather prone to cheating and desync if one tempers with the console
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:12
yeah :P it's not good
actually it would be cool to rewrite a lot of the code from zero to be internet-able but that would take a long time, probably better to make each unit/feature internet-able at a time so we could get to play the game as things progresses
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:13
so how much free time do you have per week?
I've set the deadline for v0.3 to 1st June, it's plenty of time for what I had proposed, but that didn't included online multiplayer sooner than v0.4
could trim down to less playable units for 0.3 but having online multiplayer instead
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:15
i'm a software developer with my own company here in brazil so pretty much it's my job to fit projects like those into my schedule.. now actual free time that i could contribute for free not much unfortunately :P already wasted too much time on javelin this year, not to mention yesterday and today giving mp here a shot
i think featuring mp is a great way to get people testing/playing/joining the project
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:15
understood, we can talk money I guess
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:15
but you can see there is still a lot of work to be done
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:16
I agree, more useful than having lots of playable units xD
(and nobody to play them with in an easy manner)
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:17
exactly my thoughts, which is why i wanted to rush this first mp version early on :)
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:17
if we're in the same park regarding financial terms, I could even skip dealing with other coders for now
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:17
as i said i can make a big discount on what i usually charge because it open-source stuff and a great game so it would be partly my own work as well :D but tbh i am plenty busy this week maybe we should chat over more details next week or so, gives you more time to plan ahead as well!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:18
roger
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:18
as i said i can pretty much fit as much time as you want me to, i just can't work for free right now (which is a shame but hey that's life)
i mean, i'm working on 2 other projects as well but one of them is waiting for the go and the other one has no hurry
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:19
usually moved pretty slow with this as I needed time to think and such
but need to start increasing the pace and have something decent for the "elite adopters" this year, even get more funding and hopefully generate a bit of income as well
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:20
most open-source projects are like that.. forgive me for getting excited about it but i think it has a lot of potential!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:20
so one year for 3-4 releases and getting the community lined up
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:20
that actually sounds pretty fast!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:21
it can go well in some poor countries, I know Brazil has that lottery... AB is serious to be adopted by professionals and even casual players that want to make some quick money
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:22
yeah we should worry about security though, we don't want hackers to be involved if there is money being made
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:22
even 2 nice releases in a single year would be faster compared to how project has been moving before if I think about it
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:22
currently the entire code is client-side which means that security is a BIG issue..
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:22
I have a feeling a lot of people might end up playing on same machine simply dealing cash
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:22
hey i'm up for 2 or 4 releases per year, i want to see this become a big title as well!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:22
indeed
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:23
what do u mean, dealing cash?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:24
eventually betting on matches will be implemented in game, but some might skip that altogether and meet on same machine, meaning no commissions going to the game itself, but I'm ok with it provided I might not be able to do something convenient about it
people gather around in shady circles for dog fights and what not...
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:24
ah i see now! yeah that would be fun, or play just for fun as well
yeah i prefer swine thug fights for me xD
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:24
hehe
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:25
poor doggies
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:25
ikr, hopefully this game will save some animal lives and such
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:25
i have thought a bit about networking architecture the yesterday as i was finding a way to make this work - i'll send you an email later with my thoughts, more organized than chat
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:26
I'm still struggling a bit with designing the lobby / rooms and such; initially wanted random match making (depending on mmr) or rooms joinable via custom links...
cool
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:26
"no animals were hurt in the making of this game" :) you know i first stumbled on AB while looking for open-source tbs games and alternatives for LWG so i guess a lot of ppl should be searching for games like that as well
as soon as we get the game into playble-mode i think a lot of ppl will join the community
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:27
will check if LWG has fb page and add it to the "rivals" list
might even suggest the owned a page fb like exchange
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:28
the community is a huge issue with LWG - the game is awesome but there are so many trolls and spammer and generally unkind ppl that new players never join in... the developer has no time to take care of that so the game doesn't grow as it should
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:28
shirt, over 3400 people in LWG subreddit, nice
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:28
but if you pay attention you will see that there is like only a few posts per week
because people come in and think 'this game is awesome', subscribe to reddit and play a bit but later they find out the community is shit and give up
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:29
I understand, I know that moba games are very elitistic as well and most community is poisonous, that game turns men into retards
what exactly bothers you regarding community?
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:29
yeah, i wonder why :P sometimes the programmer things all he needs to do is code a great game, like LWG but community moderation and leadership is soooo important
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:30
treating new players as noobs? veteran players flaming them?
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:30
(light is flickering today here, not sure why this never happened, if i go offline you know something happened xD)
there are many things, let me tel you a few
  1. veteran players create new accounts for matchmaking so they play with noobs, destroy them in the most annoying possible way and the staff does nothing about it.. good players should use good accounts and play against good people, not harass noobies
  1. nobody is overlooking the chat room most of the time so people will be rude, spam stuff, it's impossible to chat about the game
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:32
I considered only doing code or 3d as well, but I think I should focus more on other stuff like design, management, marketing, funding, PR, stuff that's about laying a good base, making an excellent all around balanced product and pushing things in the right direction while making sure it stays on a good path towards becoming something outstanding
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:32
just to know that you are thinking of these things makes me happy! so many open-source games don't even stop to think about it
it's important to have a long-term plan
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:34
that veteran stuff with low level matchmaking account is called "smurfing", to some it might not seem like a terrible thing, but it's fucking awful, it happened to me quite a few times in dota2, while I'm a veteran player, I'm not a professional one and I don't want to become one, because I'm more about creating stuff and my hands etc hurt a lot as it is, I don't want to spend energy having a godlike APM and such
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:34
  1. there are a ton of trolls in LWG that will join a game and then leave after 1 or 2 minutes. then they will stay in the game and do that again and again. in LWG someitmes you want to play a 6 player map, you wait for 10 minutes or more for 6 players to join your map.. the game starts and then after 2 minutes the game is over because a troll has left and ruined the game for everyone
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:34
dota2 started doing a little better chatwise when they split chats based on location/ip instead of focusing on generic or country based rooms
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:35
and no one is paying attention or controlling this sort of thing.. so you see: many small things that shows that LWG is not concerned with the community at all.. the game is great but the community makes it unenjoyable, which is why it doesn't grow even being one of the best HTML5 games ever made
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:35
that player not having enough patience to play, especially when losing, was one of the main things that killed battle for wesnoth for me
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:36
smurfing, interesting, never heard of that. i guess on a big game is ok but on LWG where there are only 50 players online generally then it really hurts beucase a noob has 80% chance to play against a great player
i don't think it's a matter of patience, i think it's trolling because they guy will quit the game and then wait for another to start and do the same thing.. i've seen it over and over and over happening
maybe even someone from Blizzard who wants to destroy the game maybe...
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:37
even when I got into OpenRA, it was annoying to play online, because is has low amount of players, most of them being elite (I'm more of a tiberian sun / red alert player, but those mods are not available yet), so I had veteran players using rush strategies on me all the time, which was rather upsetting
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:38
it makes no new players want to play the game, then the game never grows, exactly like LWG
the only people playing are "elite" who act like jerks and don't help noobs, only make them want to go away
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:38
understood, I care about patching all those issues, because for AB, player base is what makes or breaks the game; while I'm making an awesome game, it's all in vain if nobody actually plays it
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:38
for me they should be banner, better to have more new players coming in than to never grow at all
i think AB also has an interesting feature that RTS games can't have.. have you ever played chess by mail or something like that?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:39
I've actually designed a mod for AB where veteran players have a good reason to invite friends over and play with them, teach them and work together to achieve victory (Kingdom Wars)
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:40
that's interesting :D
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:40
while AB will lack the "play by email feature" probably, I know the concept, tried it with some other tbs games
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:41
i think it would be interesting for players to be able to leave the game and only make a few moves per day, this way people who don't have time to wait for matchmaking or such can still play with friends
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:41
anyway, when it comes to AB, it should be a little easier to get into because of the turns and being very relaxed when you're in the mood for that
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:41
or even you an me for example, instead of having to meet and play together we could play a match during the day, taking small breaks from work.. could be an interesting mod
yes i agree
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:42
we could join an AB game room that has infinite time and be able to "pause" as we please like that
so the infinite turn time/pool is a bit like play via email if I think about it, hence why I actually left it in the game
while important matches will be forced to have a time limit
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:43
yeah, i think that would make the game stand out since there are no other games like that (except chess maybe)
it is important that the player can shut down his computer and resume later, or log in from another machine for example
(for this mod idea of course, not the common games)
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:45
I admire chess, but it kinda pisses me off as well (I see all things dual-edged anyway), it offers a 1st turn advantage (statistically at least), it's a bit racist (black vs white), a little non-intuitive, only 1vs1, lacks choice of pieces like deck building concept which card games have and so on
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:45
deck building is awesome indeed!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:45
plus it's a bit too "stiff" and it actually triggers anxiety in me, too many moves to think about overall
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:46
i like chess but to play online is impossible because russians.. they are too good for normal people to play against XD
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:46
doesn't feel very relaxed, it's stressful to me, while in AB you see cute creatures and effects, more chilled out, while AB relies on intelligence, it kinda makes that seem totally optional, so a lot of people will make random moves for fun
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:46
chess is more of a memory game than a strategy game.. if you can remember all the moves your opponnet can do you will win, even if you have a bad strategy
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:47
plus chess has too many bots when it comes to online play; quite a few people said that the same thing could happen to AB, but I don't find it a huge problem atm
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:47
AB uses more imaginations as well
chess pieces are just pieces :P
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:47
(anyway, thinking about it, many said that people are greedy and will make bots if we're talking bitcoin betting especially)
yep
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:48
yeah but that would actually help test the game
and smart players would win every time against bots
but usually the community moderator should ban bots, of course
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:49
I think so too, because AB is way more complex than chess actually, way more possibilities to think about, so things can turn around in any moment, a bot might not be able to take good decisions as a good player anytime soon for sure, because sometimes you need to sacrifice your own unit, literally, in order to gain an advantage
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:50
yes, as an AI programmer i know it would be pretty hard to code an "unnoficial" bot
the abilites each do different things and so on, so the bot programmer would need to focus on just a few, and then it's easy to recognize it's a bot - if it's always using the same units and strategy
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:51
and there's maintenance as well, as the project will get patched regularly
so I was a bit against having AI for AB because people would fork it and such, but I think it's good to have players get to practice
even if we're talking AI doing random moves overall
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:52
maybe a few very simple AIs? or just tutorial or challenge scenarios?
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:52
yeah, you're right, noticed in Dota2 as well that not all the heroes were usable by bots
indeed, should do fine
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:52
some sort of single-player or practice mode would be important for new players
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:52
definitely
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:53
alright man g2g now
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:53
good session so far :)
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:53
i'm very happy to find you here xD i would be very anxious to show the first mp alpha to you if you weren't here :D
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:53
haha
I'm very dedicated
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:53
i mean when i finished the last test i immediately logged in to irc and you were there, that was nice!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:54
spent like 13 years on this so far, so it's all about perseverance to me
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:54
i hope that it was good news for you today, even if we couldn't complete a match
or even get that far into a match
*very far
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:54
haha, it's all good, that match got me excited :D I'm looking forward to be able to play with fans and people I know in a few months, at least hotseat
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:55
also it was a lot of fun!! i LOVE technical challenges and getting a MP architecture done in 1 mostly day was great
i would LOVE to be able to make a playable MP for v0.3! i would be so fucking proud hahaha
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:56
cool, will try getting more documentation out of the way tomorrow and will put more thoughts into how to approach the whole multiplayer stuff
will test DP and some other patches as well
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:57
alright, i will send that mail tomorrow or whenever i can sit down and think a bit more as well.. we can discuss more details over there or next week! thx for the chat today!
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:57
looking forward to it, bye for now ^^
tukkek
@tukkek
Mar 08 2016 20:57
and sorry if i don't write or come back too soon but i'll have to rush up to make up for the "lost time" today and yesterday since now i'm behind schedule on other projects T.T
alright cya, thanks again and have fun :D
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 20:58
I understand, take your time, poke me when you're done or see you around
you too
Nicolas Sebrecht
@nicolas33
Mar 08 2016 22:09
@DreadKnight test
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 22:10
@nicolas33 thanks, seems everything is good now, strange
Nicolas Sebrecht
@nicolas33
Mar 08 2016 22:10
Weird. I thought you were talking about the Activity at right panel...
/quit
Dread Knight
@DreadKnight
Mar 08 2016 22:11
Oh, nope, chat related tooltips; yeah, thought you might since you mentioned hooks