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    Amelia Bellamy-Royds
    @AmeliaBR
    I think the argument that <picture> is an awkward markup API is true, though, but that's more because of the incremental development with a focus on fallback & reusing other attributes/elements, vs video & audio were more created all together.
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    @edent_twitter If this were an in-person talk, I'd be nodding in agreement like 95% of the time
    вкαя∂εℓℓ
    @briankardell_twitter
    @AmeliaBR yeah - that is fair, and so is much of what the speaker said about the involvement of standardistas - I dont think picture was anyone's first take
    one of the brians :)
    I asked a q above!
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    @edent_twitter sure we may not know how to use it without looking at it, but if it supports formats we have all become comfortable with the transition into it is more seamless
    I understand the <feature> element after looking at it once because I use geoJSON, but I didn't understand <layer> and <extent> after one look.\
    Simon Pieters
    @zcorpan
    q+ to talk about the chromium origin trials process
    @prushforth ^
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    @zcorpan you next
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Definitely, I will not have much to say until I make a few P.O.C's from user stories I understand
    @zcorpan do you have a link to those origin trials?
    вкαя∂εℓℓ
    @briankardell_twitter
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Amazing response time
    ty
    Terence Eden
    @edent_twitter
    Thanks for all the questions gang. I'll be sticking around for a bit - but it is quite late in the UK :-)
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    J Moules (via zoom chat): Code is write-once read many. "Latitude" is thus clearer than "lat".
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Thanks Terence for your contribution tonight!
    yeah like really far in that direction!
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    For developers it is becoming more important that APIs don't tighten themselves into a box. Extendability considerations are key. 2D should only be different from 3D by 1 dimension, and that dimension should be possible with a small extension and vocabulary.
    The time element additions should be standard, and work in all dimensions it affects
    Simon Pieters
    @zcorpan
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    I think implementation before standards is why we are at this impass
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    Why don't you show how you can do what google maps can do? Commercial web sites use google maps because it does what they need done, is supported and can be easily brought into their website.
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    If I am left without rails to the pool of infinite possibilities, I will always pick the one with the least friction. Standards = friction
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Google maps is not the Web. It can inform a standard though.
    @thehabes Standards = maintaining the commons, so as to avoid tragedy
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    @prushforth Sure, but it means doing things to a lesser degree of freedom than being able to do whatever you want. Implementing without a standard is just that, be as free as I want to accomplish my task. Standards seem an extra layer of complication for what seems unbeneficial as an overall part of finishing the task.
    Of course now I know this is not the case, but I had to filter though some standards to understand why. A contract developer often does not have the time to go through the gauntlet.
    But if you say "you must use this standard", then they have their rails
    Daniel Morissette
    @dmorissette
    Terence Eden
    @edent_twitter
    A standard doesn't stop you going your own way if you want. You can still use Flash video, or build your own component. But a standard makes it easier for people who don't want to roll their own.
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Yeah I guess people in the framework domain complain about the DOM, and wish they could re-invent the Web because they aren't document-oriented, they're app-oriented
    @edent_twitter exactly!
    Also, a standard should enable "progressive enhancement" by providing a reasonable simple api that can be built upon
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    No, it doesn't stop me. But then all my labels become strings, and we know that doesn't work for internationalization or accessibility technological concerns. Or it means I use <a> instead of a <button> because I like it more.
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    Thankfully there is not native carousel element.
    2 replies
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    I agree with @zcorpan here - a <slippy> 2D pannable/zoomable thing is sensible, and some better way to build over WebGL/OpenGL (in a way that could fit with the D3 data model with less friction) would be awesome for dataviz in general
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Brian Kardell: Igalia has hackfests
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    Why the emphasis on making a native map element? A widget that does MapML or whatever standard you want to push can get usage and support quickly compared with trying to get a native HTML element implemented.
    7 replies
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    @fredesch Performance, accessibility, community, standards, HTML is everywhere non-siloed I could go on, but here's my presentation on it: https://www.w3.org/2020/maps/supporting-material-uploads/presentations/Why%20Maps%20for%20HTML%20-%20Peter%20Rushforth.pptx
    Amelia Bellamy-Royds
    @AmeliaBR
    Q: Based on implementation headache, what are some specific missing browser features which would make web map libraries easier to build?
    On the other side, can we improve standardization at the geo level (e.g., common format / syntax) to make things easier without browser changes?
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    @tomkralidis q+ ^ from @AmeliaBR
    Tom Kralidis
    @tomkralidis
    k
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Darn good point Will. We need the community to approach the orgs with $ to help.
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    I can't see how you will convince google to support a new element that will impact browser performance and compete with one of their commercial products. Widgets can be used by sites that want them.
    10 replies
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    @prushforth @fredesch ...and yet, I'm one of those people who will argue that one can get perf, accesibility, community and standards without putting more code in web browsers.