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    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    @fredesch Performance, accessibility, community, standards, HTML is everywhere non-siloed I could go on, but here's my presentation on it: https://www.w3.org/2020/maps/supporting-material-uploads/presentations/Why%20Maps%20for%20HTML%20-%20Peter%20Rushforth.pptx
    Amelia Bellamy-Royds
    @AmeliaBR
    Q: Based on implementation headache, what are some specific missing browser features which would make web map libraries easier to build?
    On the other side, can we improve standardization at the geo level (e.g., common format / syntax) to make things easier without browser changes?
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    @tomkralidis q+ ^ from @AmeliaBR
    Tom Kralidis
    @tomkralidis
    k
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Darn good point Will. We need the community to approach the orgs with $ to help.
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    I can't see how you will convince google to support a new element that will impact browser performance and compete with one of their commercial products. Widgets can be used by sites that want them.
    10 replies
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    @prushforth @fredesch ...and yet, I'm one of those people who will argue that one can get perf, accesibility, community and standards without putting more code in web browsers.
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    You can't solve the problems I mentioned in my presentation without a native element or two.
    What Andreas said
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Allowing a switch between different coordinate reference systems (I think this is what I mean to say, but my vocabulary in this field isn't perfect)
    Also, consistent vocabulary would be nice. The more groups I interact with, the more I realize people have different meanings of goecode, geolocate, georectify, georeference, co-locate, etc.
    вкαя∂εℓℓ
    @briankardell_twitter
    it feels like plugging here but our rendering team is amazing, and we are even making the new Vulcan stuff.. I feel like we could help with that
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Awesome! Let's work together
    Terence Eden
    @edent_twitter
    It's late here and I need to go to bed. Thanks for all the great chat. Hope to see you all in person soon. Bye!
    1 reply
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    @ahocevar re: WebGL accessibility towards web devs, I blame early implementors for being lazy on just porting the OpenGL2 ES API instead of wrapping it in actual object-oriented abstractions
    Andreas Hocevar
    @ahocevar
    Very good point @IvanSanchez_gitlab.
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    (replace "lazy" with "pressured by management" or "under haste because of release dates" or whatver underlying reason, but my point of view as an outsider remains the same)
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    I have a fun probably very off topic question. Does the proposed HTTP2 affect how HTML might work now, and does its existence mean that something is waiting for an extended HTML?
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    AFAIK HTTP2 only affects TCP connections, it shouldn't affect HTML.
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    I read a book on it, but have not implemented it in any way yet. I have a fairly naïve understanding of it.
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    As fas as maps go, it would alleviate the reasons for the hacks we use to load more tiles in parallel
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Wow not expecting answers. Color me surprised.
    Lol did not know HTTP3 existed yet
    Cool, thanks for the explanation
    Amelia Bellamy-Royds
    @AmeliaBR
    From Jonathan Moules in Zoom:
    HTTP is a Transport Protocol. It shouldn't really care about the stuff that's going over it, that's a higher level of the OSI model.
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    How do we teach our kids about maps if we don't have a standard for maps
    Doug Schepers
    @shepazu
    (insert "map reduce" joke here)
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    Answering @tomkralidis , I see a dystopian future where only three web mapping platforms work well natively in three web browsers.
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Being fully on the developer side, I hate that I had to learn about different coordinate reference systems and why my coordinates don't work the same everywhere. This makes Features way more abstract than they should be. Even when lat/lon order doesn't matter, like [12,12]. That should always put me in Africa.
    Amelia Bellamy-Royds
    @AmeliaBR
    From Jonathan Moules:
    What Daniel's talking about is a flavour of the Jevons Paradox - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox - "When technological progress or government policy increases the efficiency with which a resource is used the rate of consumption of that resource rises due to increasing demand"
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    I don't hear anyone talking about how you relay the semantics of a map to a screen reader. I did miss the first hour on Wednesday...
    If you get a native element. you must also define the semantics of the element and the accessibly APIs
    Doug Schepers
    @shepazu
    Making controls a commonly available API helps everyone, especially accessibility; you can make them flexible through the API
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    @fredesch I think the <feature> element would be where I would say to start?
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Are maps considered for "offline" functionality, like how it can be with downloaded local Google Map data
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Service workers?
    Satoru Takagi
    @satakagi
    PWA
    Andreas Hocevar
    @ahocevar
    Was just going to say that.
    Already covered by existing standards.
    Amelia Bellamy-Royds
    @AmeliaBR
    From Chris Little on Zoom:
    Question: does the panel think that maps will only take off when AR does?
    Peter Rushforth
    @prushforth
    Maps are already big!
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    Offline/cached stuff is a political/economical problem, not a technical one. As I said yesterday, preventing users from caching means more billable HTTP requests, which means more cash.
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    Yeah like service workers I suppose. I guess since <map> would be HTML that ties right in. +1
    I think maps have taken off already
    Iván Sánchez Ortega
    @IvanSanchez_gitlab
    (I feel like I'm repeating stuff that I already wrote about, but I made a radical proposal for P2P IPFS-like caches at https://ivan.sanchezortega.es:444/politics/2020/09/01/mapml-essay-part5-the-gold-the-moor-the-sausage-machine.html )
    вкαя∂εℓℓ
    @briankardell_twitter
    I feel like there are two very different aspects to the a11y questions... part of that is about interaction/interactive elements.. The answer to that is it should use the existing platform or fill in what is missing. If it is about making the rendering accessible, are the existing forms not all there too?
    Satoru Takagi
    @satakagi
    There's a 50MB limit on iOS, by the way. >Service wirker cache
    Bryan Haberberger
    @thehabes
    1000 use cases in one place : https://gisgeography.com/gis-applications-uses/
    вкαя∂εℓℓ
    @briankardell_twitter
    they have proprietary a things in everything else the browser does/did too
    Fred Esch
    @fredesch
    You need two implementations to be added to HTML.