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    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    PLEASE stop sending individual messages! do you know that you can press CTLR-ENTER to continue on another line?
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    Again, this doesn't contradict your point (if i'm paraphrasing correctly) that there are effective mechanisms that woudl take less posts.
    I cannot press control enter. I'm on a phone.
    Is this something perhaps to do with your particular gitter client?
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    yes, it's the desktop client. surely there's a way to go to the next line on a mobile as well
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    (for example, i don't get beeps on messages, so the experience in your client is a bit alien to me). What are you using if i may ask? Thanks!
    there's a way to go to the next line on a mobile as well
    I'll look into this.
    Hrmm. Not sure how to upload a screenshot on mobile.
    I don't see anything. All I have is gray text that says: "click here to type a chat message. Supports GitHub flavoured markdown.".
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    Gitter desktop client v5.0.1. not just beeps, but i have to close every single notification one at a time.if i don't 4 or 5 of them stay on the screen (maybe they disappear later, but I can't read all of the lines at the time)
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    Google searching.
    Oh weird. I've never used the desktop client. Sounds annoying. I can see about trying to tweak things. But it will be fighting a lot of muscle memory of you know what I mean :-)
    This is generally how I respond on all chat apps I use. :-/
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    image.png
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    Yeah. I tried some Google queries here. But I'm not seeing anything relevant. Do you know what 'control enter' style is called? That might help me narrow things down.
    Back in September 2019 someone wrote in gitter/gitter that the mobile apps don't support 'compose mode' and that adding ux treatment for that would 'complicate the interface'. So I'm guessing it's not possible unless they've done work since then.
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    no, i just knw it starts a new paragraph, and other apps do it too, but i can't think of any names right now
    i'm not in compose mode

    oops it was shift-enter

    that allows me to do this in one post

    some use shift-enter and some use ctrl-enter
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    Yeah... I'll read the FAQ/help to see if mobile has this.
    What is the difference between control enter and shift enter?
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    much appreciated
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    Sure! Going to bed. Night!
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    the difference is usually nothing i think. they both achieve the same thing, just some apps use one other use the other
    my apologise to all the developers who had to read through another huge conversation. my intention was exactly the opposite
    Michael W Powell
    @mwpowellhtx

    Running VS2019 offline layout update with this, but it seems to have frozen, not sure what other work it needs to do as long as I have the layout downloaded offline, right? vs_setup.exe update --installLayoutPath "F:\vs2019\MyInstance\16.9.31229.75\install" --installPath "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\2019\MyInstance" --wait --norestart --quiet --noWeb

    I will ask again. How come the process freezes? It appears to want to bootstrap something for restart now? No updating dialog appears. Nothing. It just freezes and never returns. Are there different better options that I can use to at least get SOME sort of response? Again, have ALREADY downloaded offline layout, do NOT need to do it again, that's the whole point of this approach, after all. Thank you...

    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    @mwpowellhtx sorry to ask the obvious question. have you lodged a bug on the Developer Community website?
    Hugh Gleaves
    @Korporal

    that comes purely from immense frustration! i'm totally sure he didn't mean it personally

    Indeed, the Kafkaesque nature of these kinds of things is very frustrating, the "system" operating like an uncaring, insensitive machine, always placing the onus over and over on those who are doing MS a favor by bringing these things to their attention, carefully describing what they're seeing, supplying information as and when asked. It seems that the goal these technicians are striving toward is to close tickets, actually getting them fixed seems to not be a concern.

    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    whether it's intentional or not (and personally I do believe it's intentional for the most part) it certainly FEELS that way, yes. and that's why we get so frsutrated
    What I found objectionable is the canned message about closing unless the requested materials are supplied - yet none were requested, how can one interact meaningfully with such a flawed system?
    This message was deleted
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    how can one interact meaningfully with such a flawed system?
    Just respond and provide your thoughts and responses.
    As I said, I've been in this position many times. A simple response from the other party is enough to resolve confusing cases the vast majority of Times
    Occasionally it takes me than that. However, in my time there are likely dozens to hundreds of cases (out of umpteen thousands) that have demonstrated that open communication is extremely effective at resolving mistakes.
    Kafkaesque
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    This does not seem kafakaesque. If someone misunderstands and asks for something that doesn't make sense in a particular context, then clarifications may be needed. Like I said with my own experiences, making a mistake is definitely possible, but I've never found that calling the other side 'dumb' leads to a successful resolution. :-)
    actually getting them fixed seems to not be a concern.
    Hugh Gleaves
    @Korporal
    I assume the tracking system was designed?
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    can we please not dso this again?
    do*
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    This is not true. Fixing issues is definitely a huge concern. However, there are legitimate times when someone triaging honestly things there is no issue.
    Hugh Gleaves
    @Korporal

    can we please not dso this again?

    Yes, I agree, I'm done.

    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    But even in that case here, they reached out giving two weeks for any response to see if their conclusion was wrong. But there were no responses then... So closing was appropriate.
    Yann Duran
    @yannduran
    enough!
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    Wouldn't you have done the same? I.e. if you thought nothing was wrong, and customer didn't say anything else, what would you do in that situation?
    Do what? I think it's entirely reasonable (and appropriate to this forum) to discuss the triage process and ways to improve it, or ways to understand it better.