These are chat archives for Microsoft/visualfsharp

30th
Nov 2016
Nicolas Bourbaki
@b0urb4k1
Nov 30 2016 07:23
Is there any task scheduler written in F#?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 14:03
windows task scheduler?
are you looking for programming styles to issue units of work?
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:11
Hi guys - Is there anyway to use f# with .NET Core and VS 2017? If not, with 2015?
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:12
no & no
there will be lots of announcements when its done, people are hard at work on it
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:14
I saw some pull requests (merged) for the dotnet cli tool for f# projects with .net core (dotnet new) a few days ago
so I figured that there might be some way
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:15
on the cli is different than with VS2017.
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:15
yes command line and vs code (to some extent) should work
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:15
dotnet/cli#4789
This pr seems to be targeting the msbuild variant of .net core projects (á la 2017)
dotnet/cli#4836
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:16
don't tell people that, it just leads to headaches for them and more questions that i don't want to answer :smile_cat:
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:16
msbuild and VS2017 are not quite the same thing
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:16
@pr-yemibedu care to elaborate?
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:16
vscode doesn't work for the new fsproj, only project.json
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:16
visual studio comes with msbuild but the environment may not be vetted to see all the dotnet goodies
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:17
@cloudRoutine well, personally I want it to work with vs 2017 and not vscode
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:17
@cloudRoutine I think @enricosada claimed he got that working ;-)
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:17
he didn't
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:17
;-)
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:18
if he'd help me with the project he originally said i shouldn't do, we'd be done by now :P
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:18
lol
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:18
@pr-yemibedu "dotnet goodies"? in vs 2017, the .net core projects (c# ones) went back to .csproj from .json though - as far as I've understood, in favor for it to work with msbuild
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:19
@forki i could go work on that, but paket has stolen me away ;P
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:19
csharp and vb are a little disjointed from fsharp given how Roslyn is used.
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:20
a little? try entirely
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:20
I will be less modest next response.
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:23
the C# community will be very thankful if you fix paket
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:23
i know it's all exciting and everyone wants to use this and has been waiting for ages for this to happen, but it really really really sucks to use the parts that work right now
so just wait a bit longer
my netcore tool porting projects will be very thankful for me fixing paket :D
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:40
funny how it's advertised as one platform, multiple languages
but it's not
well, was inspired to learn f# earlier today when watching a talk on it, I guess I'll go back to my c# corner and stay there
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:41
VB & C#, 2 languages
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:42
go learn f#
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:42
maybe when the tooling is there
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:42
it's not like it's impossible to use F#, 4.0 is plenty good, VS tooling support with VFPT is quite satisfactory
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:42
my projects are 90% .net core nowadays
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:42
F# support in vscode with ionide is much better than C# support with ionide
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:43
not sold, tbh
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:43
anyone who learned c# with vs2005 can do f# with vscode
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:43
so write it in 4.0 for netframework and then add the extra targetframework propertyitems once netcore support is done
very little to nothing is going to change about the code you write
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:44
I've done .net since the beta of it, but if the tooling isn't there, I am not looking to jump over hoops to go learn it
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:44
?
f# has tooling.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:45
not for .net core apparently
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:45
@andre-realroi do you know what VFPT and ionide are?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:45
dotnet core may not have tooling
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:45
right
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:45
okay. no harm no foul.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:45
and how am I supposed to get a f# project targeting .net 4.5 or whatever to work with a netstandard1.6 application?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:45
when ready. you will enjoy to outcome
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:46
I hope so too
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:46
you change some properties in the fsproj
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:46
and it will be compiled targeting .net core?
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:46
i've been writing fsproj files that multiframework build for netcore and net46 for a couple weeks
the F# code doesn't change
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:47
ok, so now we're getting somewhere
So I asked this, and got the following answer:
@andre-realroi
Hi guys - Is there anyway to use f# with .NET Core and VS 2017? If not, with 2015?
@cloudRoutine
no & no
so that wasn't true?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:48
@cloudRoutine is exploiting the flexibility in project files that even Visual Studio doesn't fully support
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:48
it was true, the stuff i'm doing is all manual with custom stuff i've rolled
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:48
so you're not using Visual Studio?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:49
he is not in isolation of the default UI
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:49
sometimes i use vscode, sometimes i use VS
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:50
and fsproj is just an xml style file. open, edit, enjoy.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:50
So I'll ask again:
Is there anyway to use f# with .NET Core and VS 2017? If not, with 2015?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:50
the computer science answer is: it depends.
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:50
not in a way that's managable for someone who's not deeply familiar with F# already
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:51
if you are okay with working with the files, then yes
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:51
geez, alright
i give up
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:51
@pr-yemibedu it's a bit more than that, there an unfortunate amount of system config too
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:51
sorry. I think we are all trying to be honest and transparent.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:52
I asked if it's possible, you say no, and then contradict yourself by mentioning you've done it assuming certain things
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:52
@andre-realroi what i'm saying is you can write the code now for 4.0 building on net46, and then in a few weeks you can modify your project files and compile for netcore and net46
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:52
yes. I work with vscode and use f# with fake to create nice build files
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:53
@andre-realroi the reason i've been doing it is because i'm working on building out all the tooling support for netcore cli, for vscode, and for VS
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:53
So f# can't target .net 4.6 either?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:53
it can
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:53
i've said it can at least 3 times
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:53
he meant in addition
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:53
fair enough, sorry misread that
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:54
4.61 in 2015 is what I use at work daily
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:55
I think the honest answer is: yes most things work with big amount of hackery. but things will improve with RTM
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:55
In all honesty, from my perspective - the .net core "product" seems to be quite mismanaged from Microsoft's side of things. It's been a mess in my eyes :-\
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:55
revelation of the century ;P
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:56
yes. true. and the people here try to help make it actually work nicely ootb
but we are not there yet
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:56
I fear it's going to be a python 2.7 vs 3.x story all over again
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:56
honestly it's not going to be like that at all
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 15:56
that is really not the same
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:58
and the netcore issues are of no fault of the F# team, who do a ton of work with nowhere near the support that C# gets
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 15:58
well, we'll see how many of the well-used libraries and frameworks that will be bothered to port to .net core - granted, quite a bit of projects already have
@cloudRoutine I don't doubt that for a second
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 15:59
for F# everything important will be, lots of projects have been netcore compatible for months
Steffen Forkmann
@forki
Nov 30 2016 15:59
I'm pretty sure porting will be very easy when tooling is done
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:00
it seems having less chefs makes for a language with better flavor.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:00
Depends on the breaking changes. I came across one when porting a project from .NET 4.6 to .NET Core the other day that had to do with CultureInfo and enumerating all supported cultures and regions
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:01
was it a show stopping change or just a pain to correct?
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:01
show stopping, wasn't possible at all
I had to end up compiling a list of cultures and regions, and hard-code them (as it was a valuetype for a DDD based project)
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:02
ouch
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:03
and googling around, it looks like they're not planning on adding it to .net core, as they've deemed it as an "edge case"
but I suspect it has to do with cross platform compatibility, as it's actually being done through a P/Invoke to enumerate them
Sure, I can do that as well, but that would limit my project to Windows platforms
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:04
not an F# related problem though ;)
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:04
true. it is not.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:04
no, a .net core one
just ranting on all the issues related to it
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:05
at least watch some f# videos
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:05
So to keep it to the topic of this channel - how come F# lags behind - why isn't Microsoft betting more on it?
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:05
they're preoccupied with the C# mess they've made
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:05
the only lag in f# is not having macros
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:06
I watched some from Scott Wlaschin earlier today, and been reading some articles on it
I saw some talks from an asian girl, I don't remember her name, but a data scientist that used F# - it was inspiring
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:06
scott, tomas, jared (needs to make more), andrea
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:07
i have no time, too many tools to code :dizzy_face:
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:07
The typing system is very compelling from a DDD-ES-CQRS perspective
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:07
jared. video while programming about tools. live code sessions!
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:10
i jump around too much, can't stay focused
i promise to start blogging next year at the least
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:12
So f# 4.1 will target .net core, or how is the versioning aligned?
@pr-yemibedu Do you have full names and perhaps links to the people you mentioned with the videos?
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:14
yes 4.1 will target netcore
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:16
Tomáš Petříček: The Origins of Monadic and Comonadic Computations
Monads by Example : DC F# Meetup
Computation expressions in context - Andrea Magnorsky
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:19
Introduction To Stateful Monads In FSharp : James Litsios
and Phillip Trelford
you already know scott has vimeo monad videos and his blog
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:21
Are these videos quite 'data scienty' or?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:21
that particular tomas video is mathy.
look for these people with keywords of "intro" or "learn"
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:22
theres a wide variety on the community for F# channels
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:22
whether a video or blog
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:22
My particular "usage" will be more towards the domain driven development, event sourcing and so on
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:23
look for Rachel and jet.com
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:23
Nice, thanks
The interopability between C# and F# - suppose I do my domain modelling in F# and use asp.net webapi as an interface, is it possible to make that work?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:25
you probably already watched this on youtube.
Domain-Driven Design, Event Sourcing and CQRS with F# and : Lev Gorodinski
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:26
I'm actually watching that one now
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:26
he helps to reduce your code a lot with some good patterns.
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:27
yeah, domain models in c# is sometimes a pain
me and my team built a pretty big adtech internal system, and some domain models are not very nice looking due to all the equality etc
one of my guys actually took the initiative to experiment on porting one of the bounded contexts to f#
but hadn't had the time to do much yet
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:28
if you have questions the FSSF slack and fpchat.com #fsharp channel are the places to go
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:28
they should be given the time
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:29
@pr-yemibedu what should be given the time?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:29
to model in f#
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:31
people are on that?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:31
40 ish
it is actually ##fsharp for the open room
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:32
~950 on both fssf and fpchat slacks, but there's a lot of overlap between them
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:32
the site auto navigates as the other is invite only
irc is not for everyone. I will look at the slack one
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:34
for fssf signup at http://foundation.fsharp.org/join and you should be auto emailed invite to the slack channel http://fpchat.com/ <- signup here
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:34
fpchat.com is blocked by proxy
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:35
are all slack sites?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:35
no
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:35
what's your email?
Yemi Bedu @ P&R
@pr-yemibedu
Nov 30 2016 16:35
unless that is the name of the channel?
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:35
it's just the site where you add your email to get an invite
i can submit yours for you
i only got the first one
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:37
Slack is nice, use it for two of my businesses and for other public dev chats
They should really consider making some kind of single-sign-on type of deal
I have to "create" a user for each "community / team" I join, including password
annoying
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:40
the desktop client signs into everything at once
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:41
I know, I use it daily in 2 of my businesses and a couple of dev communities
But you still have multiple "users" in the system
blob
Jared Hester
@cloudRoutine
Nov 30 2016 16:43
:+1:
André Andersen
@andre-realroi
Nov 30 2016 16:45
Costs a bit though, when hosting a team of almost 100 people :-|
Free plan wasn't good enough