These are chat archives for Mudlet/Mudlet/whatever

15th
Apr 2017
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 09:54
Did you know IRE is coming out with a new MUD
It'll be interesting to see how Mudlet does there. IRE has very capable Javascript-powered clients now and Starmourn will be a brand new MUD
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 09:57
Interesting.
They probably have an advantage.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 09:57
I think I'll help out Mudlet users there by porting their UI to Mudlet again just like I did with Nexus
That'll help get Mudlet get started there
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 09:58
They can just write a client that reads out-of-band data and produce a custom graphical client.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 09:58
They do, thankfully it's all GMCP based
Just have to decode the undocumented features they add to it
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 09:59
yeah
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:01
I've been thinking a lot about the project and I think there's a lot we can do from the external-facing stuff as well to make Mudlet nicer
One thing I'd like to do is to have in-client tutorials on how to do stuff: https://github.com/Mudlet/newbie-tuts
All of these things that games make it easier for a new player to get started - we could do it to get the player started in the world of MUDs
There's still so many ideas I want to add to Mudlet! New website, those tutorials, a bunch of API functionality. It's fun
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:03
I'm not sure what I think about starmourn specifically. Their last scifi mud failed to launch and Midkemia closed. I'm not sure if there's a market for a scifi mud or well, any mud that requires funding anyways.
There will always be free muds
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:03
Well it's their CEOs baby, I think the CEO was away for Midkemia
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:03
But it's not really a brilliant market for text muds right now or probably ever again. :P
Matt tried to do Earth Eternal and failed.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:04
That was yeah.
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:04
I think he has a better chance with starmourn.
As long as he doesn't write the room descriptions at 2 am while sleep deprived, like he did with Azdun :P
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:06
Haha really
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:06
I started playing Achaea 16 years ago. I can be nostalgic about that time I was nostalgic about being nostalgic :P
I'm also realizing that I've played the game using windows telnet.exe, zmud, cmud (both of which I actually bought), mudlet, muccl, tintin++, linux telnet and 3 different mobile clients across windows mobile, windows phone and iOS.
Oh, I forgot, I've used nexus too.
Mudlet with svo is probably my favorite, because of the fact that I could easily extend svo with various actions.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:13
Nice. I've started out with the old Java client, then first Java Nexus, then the 2nd Java Nexus (current Javascript client is also Nexus)
Then I moved to Ubuntu so I didn't have a client - toyed with Kildclient, GNOME MUD but they weren't very good, and I didn't want to run zmud in wine
Oh, KMuddy
That's where me and Heiko got together to make Mudlet.
Svo is open-source these days btw, I stopped working on it and opensourced it: https://github.com/svof/svof
@keneanung is now leading the torch on that project
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:15
Cool
The build system for svo seemed complicated the first time I looked at it.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:16
Yeah it requries you to do some acrobatics to setup
Kinda sucks to have that barrier of entry
keneanung
@keneanung
Apr 15 2017 10:17
I was looking into dockerizing that, but didn't get very far testing
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:17
I was hoping it would just let you copy/paste into mudlet or something
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:18
There should be a way to make it simpler, because if svo has such a barrier than other people can't really make it nice either - if they want to develop their system outside of Mudlet
It's something I'll look to improve for Svo so other projects can have an easier time. Not immediately on my roadmap though
Dockerising might be a very good idea! Depends on how difficult Docker is to get running on Windows...
keneanung
@keneanung
Apr 15 2017 10:18
And documenting the undocumented gmcp stuff is what I tried on my gmcp additions page
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:19
I was amused by my 30-40k character database of almost all Achaea characters
keneanung
@keneanung
Apr 15 2017 10:19
For windows it's not that hard, though I didn't test the different ways to share folders with the host... Which is the greatest barrier
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:20
Why not just put it in mudlet xml files? Is it because you want to edit it outside mudlet?
keneanung
@keneanung
Apr 15 2017 10:22
That's a great help for me, yes. And it makes git diffs more readable
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:22
That makes sense.
keneanung
@keneanung
Apr 15 2017 10:22
And possibly use an IDE
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:23
I've converged on vim, but then again, I'd just vim the xml files anyways
I've wanted to have a mud client with a completely lua config file.
basically, you'd have access to everything though the lua api, so you could just create everything through lua.
keneanung
@keneanung
Apr 15 2017 10:31
I mostly use vim as well, but only because I didn't find my perfect IDE setup yet. Mainly because Mudlet is so hard to integrate there. But I hate looking things up in other files with vim
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:42
Did Jeremy leave IRE?
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:52
You mostly can with Mudlet's API I think. It'll get you 95% of the way there just through Lua
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:53
There isn't really a way to create any permanent objects in a hierarchy, is there?
I can't remember.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:53
There is, perm* aliases
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 10:56
The api there is somewhat suboptimal, in that you have to create the hierarchy using distinct names yourself for it to be useful.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 10:57
I don't understand the issue
Well it's not an awesome API allowing fluent calls, no
Only mentioned that it's possible, maybe not in style :)
What was your idea?
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:01
It'd be cool to have something like:
triggers.add {
  name = "my_trigger_group",
}

triggers.my_trigger_group.add {
  name = "got_tell",
  regex = [[^(\w+) tells you, ".*"$]],
  script = [[echo(matches[1])]],
}
I'm not sure I'd want exactly that.
But something with a similar feel.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:03
For sure. I think Mudlets job will be to enable someone to build such a DSL if they'd like
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:04
My 'dream' would be to have this be the file format that mudlet stores things in. :P
Granted, that would be a bit meta :P
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:06
;)
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:09
Or maybe:
triggers.my_trigger_group = {}

triggers.my_trigger_group.got_tell = {
  regex = [[^(\w+) tells you, ".*"$]],
  script = [[echo(matches[1])]],
}
Which is more concise.
It's way more concise than the xml is
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:10
I have a DSL in svof for making defences as well: https://github.com/svof/svof/blob/master/raw-svo.defs.lua#L59
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:13
You seem to just be adding data to a map.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:13
Pretty much, then it creates triggers off that map.
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:14
Yeah
It'd be more awesome if they were permanent triggers.
Then I could see them in the ui
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:15
not in that usecase, no.
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:15
Why not?
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:15
the user doesn't need to be spammed with them and being temp ones, updating them is easy.
plus I wouldn't want the user to be able to modify them since their work will be lost.
don't have to worry about organising it nicely either for a good presentation
temp ones are pretty ideal for that scenario
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:16

In a world where updating them is as easy as:

triggers.my_trigger_group.got_tell.regex = [[^(\w+) tells you, "(.*)"$]]

Why would it matter?

Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:17
Yeah, I'd have to find the old ones to delete
More work than just creating new temp ones on start
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:17
Well, the goal behind the API would be that you could just manipulate the hierarchy directly.
So, you could:
for k, v in pairs(triggers) print(k, v.regex, v.script) end
I mean, if you only had folders at the top level, you'd get empty strings or nil for the regex and script.
probably
But if you named them well enough, you could just edit them in place and they would update.
Or at least, that's the 'idea'.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:22
Sounds interesting
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:22
But if you actually had this model, you could have a property called persistent for any trigger and if it's true, it would be saved and if it's false, it wouldn't (and if it's true, your parent's has to also be true)
Which means, temp triggers could still be in the ui
They just wouldn't be saved each time.
Cause if you can create the hierachy from lua, you can just have a script file with all the creation in it and it would cost the same as just loading the save file directly.
But to do something like this, we'd need that data structure I mentioned before.
And it'd probably be a huge change.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:25
Yeah it would.
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:25
It'd be like Mudlet X 1 (like Mac OS X 1)
which it wasn't called.
They just went from 9 to X and stayed there
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:26
I'd like to focus on my efforts i18n, accessibility and a lot of other things right now - there's visible demand for that stuff
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:27
Of course.
I'm not sure I'd ever actually get any of this working.
I just think it's a cool idea
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 11:27
Agreed
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 11:27
Just like I think having an async Rust client for HBase is a cool idea.
I'll probably never write one.
Stephen Lyons
@SlySven
Apr 15 2017 14:38

I'm not sure what I think about starmourn specifically. Their last scifi mud failed to launch and Midkemia closed. I'm not sure if there's a market for a scifi mud or well, any mud that requires funding anyways.

AFAIK Midkemia closed because they wanted to stop paying fees to Raymond Feist - and StarMourn was spotted a while back

Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 15:33
Ha. I don't play IREs so they'll have to work for Starmourn to have a spot
Play *anymore
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 18:21
Hehe
I stopped wanting to play IRE games after some poor decisions from the admins. Like when my character in Achaea slapped Aurora on the ass. I thought it was funny that they killed my multiple times. I didn't think it was funny that they considered it out of character abuse and docked my credibility which prevented me from doing custom emotes longer than 80 characters.
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 18:26
Especially when I responded and said that my character completely would've done that, cause she slaps people on the ass all the time and has a history of taking risks that are suicidal in nature and was using a flying panther made of ethereal flames as a mount at the time.
Not to mention her history of disrespecting Goddesses in the game. :P
But the initial reaction just sort of made me mad. The fact that I tried to explain and they just ignored me after years of being a loyal customer is what made me want to never support them again.
Vadim Peretokin
@vadi2
Apr 15 2017 18:55
Fair reaction for sure. Who was your character again?
Ahmed Charles
@ahmedcharles
Apr 15 2017 18:59
They gave me a token response to my first attempt at explaining. Then they just stopped responding to me.
At which point I just stopped playing since it's not really fun without being able to emote.
Stephen Lyons
@SlySven
Apr 15 2017 20:31
*sighs* do you find yourself emoting in other circumstances instead?