These are chat archives for Nethereum/Nethereum

25th
Aug 2017
jaibhavani
@jaibhavani
Aug 25 2017 00:01
how many ether should i have to execute the multiply function
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 00:03
if its test net just run 100000
that will do it
probably get away with half that as its so small
but
test net hey ho
abhishek
@triston_abhi_twitter
Aug 25 2017 05:52
@juanfranblanco
Yes It looks like issue in vs2017.
I am working on it to solve.
In project property I can't have any selection of target platform
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 07:22
I am getting null-pointer exception when tryingto deploy a contract
System.NullReferenceException : Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at Nethereum.Web3.DeployContract.BuildEncodedData(String abi, String contractByteCode, Object[] values)
at Nethereum.Web3.DeployContract.BuildTransaction(String abi, String contractByteCode, String from, HexBigInteger gas, Object[] values)
at Nethereum.Web3.DeployContract.SendRequestAsync(String abi, String contractByteCode, String from, HexBigInteger gas, Object[] values)
at WR.DeploymentTest.<DeployAndCallCatFactory>d__11.MoveNext() in F:\Projects\Blockchain\WR\WR\DeploymentTests.cs:line 55
--- End of stack trace from previous location where exception was thrown ---
at System.Runtime.ExceptionServices.ExceptionDispatchInfo.Throw()
at NUnit.Framework.Internal.AsyncInvocationRegio
    [Test]
    public async Task DeployAndCallCatFactory()
    {
        var txHash = await Web3.Eth.DeployContract.SendRequestAsync(_abiCatFactory, _bytecodeCatFactory, _senderAddress, gas: new HexBigInteger(1000000));

        await Web3.ValidateMinerHasStarted(true);

        TransactionReceipt txReceipt = await Web3.WaitForTransactionToBeMined(txHash);

        int result = await Web3.CallContract<int>(_abiCatFactory, txReceipt.ContractAddress, "createSiam", "Martha");
    }
... this is an incomplete unit test with no assert
exception is thrown at the first line:
var txHash = await Web3.Eth.DeployContract.SendRequestAsync(_abiCatFactory, _bytecodeCatFactory, _senderAddress, gas: new HexBigInteger(1000000));
all parameters are provided
NB! similar call in abother test works:
    [Test]
    public async Task DeployAndCallMultiplier_Contract()
    {
        var txHash = await Web3.Eth.DeployContract.SendRequestAsync(_abiMultiplier, _bytecodeMultiplier, _senderAddress, gas: new HexBigInteger(1000000), values: 7);

        await Web3.ValidateMinerHasStarted(true);

        TransactionReceipt txReceipt = await Web3.WaitForTransactionToBeMined(txHash);

        int result = await Web3.CallContract<int>(_abiMultiplier, txReceipt.ContractAddress, "multiply", 7);

        Assert.AreEqual(49, result);
    }
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 08:58
@triston_abhi_twitter do you have any parameters in your constructor?
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:00
@juanfranblanco Hi Juan! I am trying to figre out what (again) am I missing in the call :)
Started moving away to unassisted piloting of NEthereum and sudenly got stuck :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:01
if you don't have any constructor parameters, you don't need to pass the abi
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:04
Ops :)
my bad :) passing int to a function call :)
Thanks for just being here and holding our hands :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:04
no problem :)
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:05
Removed my latest IMs since they are irrelevant
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:05
btw, you can try the code generator
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:05
code generator? :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:05
if you want, you can use vscocde
and or the console app
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:05
I do use VS Code for Solidity
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:06
ok so when you compile you contract
if you select your json file
contractname.json in the bin folder
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:06
Is it generating code wrappers for contract calls??
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:06
yes
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:06
cool!
For NEthereum I assume? ;)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:07
just press F1 solidity code generate
yes generates a service
with all the event dtos, functions, etc
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:08
very cool
Error generating code:
Unexpected token p in JSON at position 0
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:09
ha ha
well that is not good
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:09
:)

pragma solidity ^0.4.11;

contract Multiplier {
int _multiplier;

function Multiplier(int multiplier) {
    _multiplier = multiplier;
}

function multiply(int val) returns (int d) {
    return val * _multiplier;    
}

}

pragma solidity ^0.4.11;
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:14
hmm no issues here
(tried two contracts)
using System;
using System.Threading.Tasks;
using System.Numerics;
using Nethereum.Hex.HexTypes;
using Nethereum.ABI.FunctionEncoding.Attributes;
using Nethereum.Web3;

namespace DefaultNamespace
{
   public class MultiplierService
   {
        private readonly Web3 web3;

        public static string ABI = @"[{'constant':false,'inputs':[{'name':'val','type':'int256'}],'name':'multiply','outputs':[{'name':'d','type':'int256'}],'payable':false,'type':'function'},{'inputs':[{'name':'multiplier','type':'int256'}],'payable':false,'type':'constructor'}]";

        public static string BYTE_CODE = "0x6060604052341561000f57600080fd5b6040516020806100d4833981016040528080519150505b60008190555b505b60988061003c6000396000f300606060405263ffffffff7c01000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000006000350416631df4f1448114603c575b600080fd5b3415604657600080fd5b604f6004356061565b60405190815260200160405180910390f35b60005481025b9190505600a165627a7a72305820a67aa7ef6ab3002dac69af34e76a3501c020d4bd2e3e685cb65266dc92a1750c0029";

        public static Task<string> DeployContractAsync(Web3 web3, string addressFrom, BigInteger multiplier, HexBigInteger gas = null, HexBigInteger valueAmount = null) 
        {
            return web3.Eth.DeployContract.SendRequestAsync(ABI, BYTE_CODE, addressFrom, gas, valueAmount , multiplier);
        }

        private Contract contract;

        public MultiplierService(Web3 web3, string address)
        {
            this.web3 = web3;
            this.contract = web3.Eth.GetContract(ABI, address);
        }

        public Function GetFunctionMultiply() {
            return contract.GetFunction("multiply");
        }


        public Task<BigInteger> MultiplyAsyncCall(BigInteger val) {
            var function = GetFunctionMultiply();
            return function.CallAsync<BigInteger>(val);
        }

        public Task<string> MultiplyAsync(string addressFrom, BigInteger val, HexBigInteger gas = null, HexBigInteger valueAmount = null) {
            var function = GetFunctionMultiply();
            return function.SendTransactionAsync(addressFrom, gas, valueAmount, val);
        }



    }
}
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:18
chould we check versions?
may be my plugin is outdated?
0.0.29
may be I miss some extensions?
The only one s I have are:
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:20
no that is the latest
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:20
image.png
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:20
have you opened the file?
the json file?
blob
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:21
image.png
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:22
ahh
that is the problem
need to add an error / warning to validate if the file opened is the json file
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:23
:)
Excellent :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:26
juanfranblanco/vscode-solidity#29
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:27
Thank you!
Do you know any private chain explorers ?
Debugging with event filters is of course an irreplacable option, but to examine the state of the blockchain is something important
I will step out for 30 min and come back
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:30
Yes sure, it is in the todo list to provide a UI and different storage options to the Nethereum.BlockchainStorage
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:31
You think of an Single page web app or?
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:31
a combination
of single page apps :)
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:32
is there any work in progress?
this is based on azure storage
other stuff is not yet released
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:34
what do you think of infura?
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:34
oh
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:34
why not use ipsf?
ipfs
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:34
infura is great
of course!
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 09:35
ipfs, ive been told SWARM is good but im not sure how to interface it unless I build a http api client
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:35
yes.. swarm it is also in the todo list
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 09:35
infura has api to both network client API and IPFS
am back in 30 min :)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 09:36
o nice
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:36
yes, you can use it for both mainnet and access ipfs storge
it is excellent
if you use it, sign through their website and use the token provided
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 09:38
oh nice
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 09:38
this way you can see the requests for your application
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:17
I need to try to interface swarm but that is really useful and im pretty sure ill use that in the near future (infura)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:18
oh yes infura is great, if you don't want to provide some backend for your dapps
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:18
well im after RTC functionality
as close too
testing shh
but dont think it will handle large networks within decent speed
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:20
give infura a go, it is really fast. They handle 1 billion requests a day
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:20
for shh?
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:20
no they dont have shh
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:20
do you think i can get an RTC over a large network to <2-3 seconds delay
i have no idea
oh
ipfs
yeah i was thinking IPNS could hold all my chats for a "channel" basically
then others could poll
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:21
ah i got you
that is actually a good idea
people confuse IPNS with other mutable naming services
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:27
IPFS, bot IPnS
as in interplanetary file system
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:27
from what I know IPNS is just a redirection service to the latest hash
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:27
yes
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:27
infura provides AP to that
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:27
should be able to issue take downs on this ipfs stuff imo
if you own the key
you should be able to kill content
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:28
but it used to build the network
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:28
what keep the data to build the network?
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:28
@aayarushin IPNS is part of IPFS
"ipns is a way to add a small amount of mutability to the permanent immutability that is ipfs. It allows you to store a reference to an ipfs hash under the namespace of your peerID ( the hash of your public key ). The commands to set it up are quite simple."
so for chatting is awesome
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:31
ipfs/faq#9
deleting chat will then be problematic? :)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:31
friends list would work too
hold their peerid/username in json
you can issue a new file with the modification and update your ipns ref
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:32
every chat user can have their own node and publish their chat ipns
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:32
exactly
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:32
good idea
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:33
you just need to put the messages in order
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:33
so ipns://juans-peer-id/chat/myusername could be DM to me
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:33
cheez
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:33
basic example
i have chicken and pesto just sitting in fridge waiting for me man
im so excited right now
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:33
:)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:34
but yeah ipfs/ns would work but my people are telling me use swarm which seems well behind ipfs at moment
ill do some tests over the weekend
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:35
filecoin ico is almost through :) https://filecoin.io/
Total Raised
$200,437,336
A distributed data storage network
backed by a token
Invest Now
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:36
200 million
wtf
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:36
yep
I tried to get in, but was impossible dues to requirements for Angel investors.... not too rich :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:37
yes that is what I thought
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:37
its getting silly if they even allowed it to take 200 mill
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:37
you have to be a millionaire
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:37
it is US regulated
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:37
oh
have to wait for it to hit exchange then
and wait for the big dump
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:38
think scalable file sharing azure-like... that will be realy cool
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:39
oh it will
but 200 million
to build it
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:39
same with cars parked on the streets... with selfdriving - no issues with parking space, more environment friendly plus sustainable
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:39
going to be lots going on in the next 30 years
with all this decentralisation and fairness
governments arn't going to be happy
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:40
we are getting selfdriving busses her already! :D
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:40
that would quite frankly scare me
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:40
government model will change...
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:40
yeah or there will be a fight
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:41
cryptowars instead of real ones - that s good
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:41
or both
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:41
too expensive...
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:41
they dont care about spending your money to hurt you trust me
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:41
I better do :)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:42
I would love to see a decentralised voting system similar to something I saw on Juans repository list
we have representatives as we cant all sit down and hash things out, but with that, we could delegate and vote and atleast the peoples feelings can be understood
maybe one day
Juan, 1am i finished my leaderboard lol
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:46
We are going to be working on one
Didn't raise enough back in 2012, but soon
world pirate party
Sweds had good pilot for electronic democracy. for a while
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:55
good
hope it works out right
dont want to be too far to the socialist side but dont want big government either!
imo

hmm

ActionResult Ajax_GetDespatchableVehicles(List<int> validVehicleIds)

Request Header
validVehicleIds[]:3178503
validVehicleIds[]:3178505
validVehicleIds[]:3178511
validVehicleIds[]:3174940

Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:57
socialism in scandinavia is with some capitalistic infusions.
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:57
wonder why this wont model bind
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:57
@kaista82_twitter lol the social democracy i started years ago
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:57
sounds like the right thing
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:58
i created the nancyfx facebook integration for that
that later on did not make it to the core repo
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:58
I love the idea
really do
thought about it for a long time
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:59
my main problem with that, is that people are easily manipulated
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:59
you cant have people making all the decisions as a hive mind but it is a great indicator for peoples feelings
yes
imo
technocracy + that
so you have peoples wants / votes
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 10:59
so i got scared about it
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 10:59
and then technical people working out what it means and acheiving
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 10:59
I discussed the idea with a seasoned journalist in the US
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:00
there needs to be delegatable people still imo
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:00
he explained the challenges
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:00
yes exactly
delegate voting
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:00
blockchain will help. One can do a validation mechanism that will sort out those paid trolls
must employ som AI :(
identity validation should then be central and not federated
not like it is in NEO
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:02
hmm yes, it is very obvious the troll manipulation (paid) now in facebook
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:02
I think NEO has good application surface, but not when it comes to democracy or other gray domains
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:04
I would build a xamarin app
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:04
weird, but true - democracy is always in a gray zone, becaue legislation in the rudimentary system is federated
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:04
people can then vote via that
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:04
vote is not problem
the problem is to introduce to the person the fact-sibject of voting that is simple and concieveable enough
think of a "map with your current geolocation, trace and directions" as the concept
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:06
also the problem is how to feed people that right information, which is not manipulated
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:06
introducing context is the thing
cannot feed
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:06
yes true
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:06
they'd need to pull
Oracles ;)
then there is a question of trust that we'll need to resolve (we cannot trust anyone right? :) )
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:07
yes feeding is bad you need to have a good representation of all the facts, not just what you like to hear
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:07
I ones developed protection of intellectial property locked with the intelectial property of the user
then they were not so keep of distributing the intellectual property subject to my defense
:)
something like that'
and make sure there are no kamikadze :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:10
how did that work?
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:10
need to present a problem, and then solutions, so ipfs or something to host the problem and proposals then you vote
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:11
neural network will need to be tought to be able to connect right solutions with right problems
the protection worked just fine :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:11
ah cool :)
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:12
central ledger of commercial data where the license information was the key to onlock the data
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:12
so you are proposing to use AI for this?
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:12
mm not sure about ai yet
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:12
license information was used like a token for access
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:13
ah got you
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:14
you'd have to know more, but that was "available"
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:14
so back to voting, how do you ensure that people vote for the "right" things, and are not manipulated.
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:14
idea of problem - solution approach might work
but we'd need to teach the neural network and for that need some history
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:15
why do you need AI
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:15
yes depends what you feed it may come out with the wrong solution
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:15
because it is like multifactor analysis to figure out what would be the right solution out of the 1000
@juanfranblanco I think people have to put something valuable at stake
like in PoS
there is something that anyone has
so that there is responsibility, concequences
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:17
hmm interesting idea
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:17
in Scandinavia that is the publicity
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:17
the proposer would attach it to the problem
surely
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:17
yes
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:17
one is realy fucked if once made "a concious mistake"
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:17
so thats association resolved
then
the network delegates technical people, like economists for economic issues
and the super intelligent people can propose solutions
etc
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:18
no-no
solutions should be proposed automatically, but intelligent people should only moderate that and held responsible
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:19
well if stakers can be manipulated, which they are at te moment
as they drive the elections results
they could drive the correctness of the data
--
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:19
everyone shall have something at stake, normalized to their own value system.
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:20
but who elects those "intelligent people"
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:20
the network
me and you say
we vouch for this guy
cus his credentials
so he has weight = 2
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:20
yeah
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:20
oh i understand that
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:20
they put themselves forward
to be selected
and provide public key
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:20
but people might vote for the wrong people influenced again
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:20
for instance
well they will loose
we will take our weight away
am I understand right
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:21
I think this is a hard off top :)))
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:21
oh i understand delegate voting
and i love it
but somebody might come and say that the earth is flat
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:21
in which case i hope noone gives them weight
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:22
and all the media (Bought)
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:22
well it is not difficult to validate that fact right ? :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:22
convince 60% of the population
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:22
we can have fact checkers
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:22
Easy with media
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:22
again delegation
they can lie still
but
they will never be trusted again
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:22
If you linked it to industrial capitalist then it is facted... See the impact
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:22
and the good guys will hit top and stay there
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:23
ok if you look at brexit (as an example) with the nhs bus etc
nothing fact checked, nobody cared
still people don't care
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:24
people cannot care due to their operational context.
Thinking Fast and Slow
see that book
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:24
yeah that propopsal wouldnt have got voted for if the fact checkers said nope this is bull
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:24
we are good at small tasks
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:25
the proposal wouldnt have been sealed/allowed in in the first place to vote for
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:25
problems should be small
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:25
yes
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:25
so there is an easy solution
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:26
vote for small problems, things in context
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:26
but look - there will be concurrency problems as in the stone age... but the system will need to equilize that
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:26
tbh we could use RNG and do better than the UK government lalalal
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:26
so there is not voting based on random beliefs but facgts
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:26
then the question that we all look away when we eat chicken is: how sustainable is it
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:26
still lots of small solutions may conflict
but yeah
quantify it in solid boxes
will definately be good idea
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:27
mcro and macro cultures are part of the context yes
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:27
now the issue is voting apathy
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:27
we will endup with concurrency, but there will be suggested diferent ways to solve that
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:28
which can be solved with the right delegates
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:28
like for kids in the sandbox
no delegates... just common solid healthy democratic principles
we do not fight for the span, we take turns
methamirror NLP technic is not familiar everyone
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:30
so I don't feel qualified to vote on Health matters I would chose a particular delegate based on his credentials
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:30
then there is this guy "conflict resolver" that knows NLP and can help to solve problems
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:30
those conflict resolvers need to be elected
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:31
one aspect of political sstem is the length of the various impact paths
election WAS necessary in old days
because of us humans living our lifes here and now
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:31
yes sure i understand that
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:31
I cannot be on political arena and be with my kid at the same time
then someone has to do that work
so I had to delegate that
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:32
but if we have to make 100 decisions a day
or 1000
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:32
the amount of work / responsibility that "Delegate" needs to assume now isdifferent - much less
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:32
yeah delgation will resolve that correct Juan
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:33
hance less chance for corruption ( aka pursuiing own independent interests)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:33
so you need to move that to the experts
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:33
but even if you delegate and they choose wrong within a timelimit you could remove maybe
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:33
yes
you can change delegates
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:34
I only delegate whetever I can verify is correctly executed
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:34
with this system, people will loose quickly if they lie
and very soon be black listed
only the best will rise
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:34
ok so an ai system that verifies the decisions made
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:34
so social democracy + technocracy
hhehe
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:35
blacklisting is a fallback that is absolutely necessary but not the primary mechanism. Simply because people live now and it is hard to fix what has been done.
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:35
by the delegates and their correct path
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:37
allow to delegate only what one canand will validate
I can delegate development of a Dap to you because I can validate it in github
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:37
so social democracy + technocracy + allow to delegate only what one canand will validate
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:37
so we would vote after to say we were happy with outcome?
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:37
nice nice
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:37
I cannot delegate cooking to you because I myself cannot cook
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:38
so if they succeed they're credability increases?
imagine being able to sack bad representatives!!!!
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:38
so that means my vote won't be valid
on cooking as I cannot cook
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:38
at any point of time we should be able to correct the delegate's workings
yep
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:38
so it won't have much weight
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:38
erm
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:38
nope
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:39
but i love to eat
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:39
not so simple though :)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:39
voting, is for the people no? even if you cant cook, you may have a say on GM crops
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:39
several weights like in mathemetical programming
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:39
the proposals will separate wheat from chaf
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:39
there are several extremal points on the solutin sirface... choice of one is a mathematical problem :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:40
"but i love to eat" means that still I wont to know the output
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:40
come on! :) we all love to eat
:D
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:40
oh so you delegate food related to jaime oliver
and vote on per issue with tech?
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:40
ha ha
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:41
perosnally I would give heston my vote
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:41
yes but who says that Jaime Oliver is a good cook?
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:41
cus i like his scientific beakers
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:41
exatly
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:41
:D
heston will have lots of weight
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:41
cheez just merged code without review :D:D:D:D
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:41
even if he wasnt fat before
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:41
exciting topic
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:41
Jaime Oliver puts chorizo in paellas
(which is not good)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:41
yeah jamie isnt good like heston
kaista82_twitter @kaista82_twitter delegates heston
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:42
so we have agreed that we cannot cook but we want to have a saying on who we delegate as a cook
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:43
no no
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:43
yes
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:43
I should know how to cook
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:43
we say we cant do better than heston we put our trust in him
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:43
I should be able to validate
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:43
then when he puts chorizo in a paella we kick his ass
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:43
but I do not know cooking machines etc
frameworks
but I can set and validate the requirements
not only functional but also technical
as in sustainability check
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:44
ok so i guess what we need to separate
"taste" matters from real matters
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:45
if Juan created a cool plugin that uses too much memory Ishould be able to percieve that and help Juan
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:45
sorry you must loose my vote as Juan has GC on his side i know thats a lie
unless he missed a dispose?
:)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:46
lol
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:46
dispose is part of the framework, but you should not hold references thatis for sure :D:D:D
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:46
god damnit, USE USING() :D
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:46
using is not effective in complex architectures :)
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:46
ha ha
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:47
I never use it ;)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:47
wut
in c# you dont use using?
its so convenient though
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:47
depends on scope
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:47
keeps scope, does dispose
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:47
insteresting what has happened here
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:47
and the applicability is very limited
otherwise you introduce tight coupling
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:48
nobody could vote on this granular level
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:48
in the call chain
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:48
if they don't know what we are talking about
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:48
good rule of thumb
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:49
so it proves that for delegate voting, or voting in certain areas we need a level of specialisation
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:50
the choice of delegated scope should also be subject to evaluation and be dynamic
in the rudimentary system it is static for a period of time
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:51
yes
and the decision makers are not the right ones
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:51
but then there are so many side effects of that
they were the right ones probably at the moment of voting, but not necessarily will that be the same during the whole period
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:52
correct
once the popularity contest is won, they do what they want
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:53
yeah i hate that
lie
get in, take the advantage
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:53
well people aren't that evil
they are just limited
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:54
some are pretty bad man
but yeah
mostly not
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:54
have you read Thinking Fast and Slow?
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:54
im a pessamist with this
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:54
Very interesting, book
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:54
in my reading list now
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:54
no but read alot of psycology
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:54
try it
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:54
and about gulag/hitler stuff, crazy what humans are capable of and not
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:55
VEry complex concepts explained on fingers and with examples that you can practice
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:55
yes people can be easily influenced
that is my problem
to act against themselves
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:55
but be carefull with that book I got realy depressed at times... because I lost basis for some time
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:55
or through fear act against others
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:56
yes we are still very simple things, monkeys
the rate of tech increase is crazy
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:56
well, we are veyr complex
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:56
I think if you have UBI in place you will remove most of the fears of people
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:56
and the patterns our brain uses are mostly explained
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:56
yeah, my worry with that is will they do what I would do and create
i love UBI idea
but will people just fester
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:57
what is UBI?
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:57
tbh i dont care i would create as i love to create
universal basic income
you should know about it your country is toying with the idea
i think
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:59
UBI could solve so many problems, not just the economical
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 11:59
communistic idea?
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 11:59
For example migration (hot topic) if there is a world UBI
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 11:59
its a great idea imo
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 12:00
it will be reduced to only specific situations and needs
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:00
yes, but the history shows that people need to have a chance to evolve, i.e. be different and appreciated for that!
Juan Blanco
@juanfranblanco
Aug 25 2017 12:00
not very communistic as it will allow for people to have bigger spending power
oh you have a basic income
so you don't have the basic worries
everybody has that income
not just specific people
then you can concentrate on evolving, be different and appreciated for that
and caring :)
so the more fears you reduce, people will act less selfish and be driven to hatred
add that to the voting ideas :)
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:05
good thinking... may be making some time
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:07
and not communistic, socialist
if i understand correctly
and still democratic
best of all the things
imagine not having a right/left, but a whats right
omg so good
for the people
what a dream
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:09
I agree that comunistic is a utopia... it is like NEO
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:09
yeah it just kills millions
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:09
yeah, we have a democratic system, but it is federated
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:09
but socialism has some good bits
but i like propery rights and incentive to work
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:21
I want a crypto visa but not sure if to go spectrocoin or tenx :/
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:23
an offtop: Have you used btcrelay?
I want to let people buy my token with btc
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:32
No changelly/bittrex/coinbase are my main ones
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:32
they have high fees
besides would it raise the value of ETH if it was joined with BTC?
Rootstock will use BTC as currrency, for instance
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:34
Im not sure what you mean by joined
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:35
locked btc in ethereum contracts
not miing of course
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:59
Thank you for the ref though @kaista82_twitter
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 12:59
ref?
oh those three things
ok
no problems
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 12:59
:)
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 13:00
thought you were spammed a referal link or something then in my name lol
Alexander Yarushin
@aayarushin
Aug 25 2017 13:00
lol
kai
@kaista82_twitter
Aug 25 2017 14:36
have we got a new solution for the worlds governments yet guys
looking forward to the revolution etc
:D