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    Will
    @willscott
    if you've got state you want to store for a shorter amount of time, you make a new short-lived contract to store it in
    rather than having to worry about lifetime in all storage interactions explicitly, this moves it to a developer-controlled granularity
    for (3): maybe the place to look is at serverless code like amazon lambda or cloudflare edge workers. there are cases where the types of RPC handlers used in those situations do benefit from having a file system
    I can see the benefit of (4), but i think having an implicit base token is also a useful abstraction, especially for things like being able to bundle a direct cross-contract call with value transfer
    glad you're excited about Mantle, @masonforest ! if there are different semantics at the wasm/wasi layer you end up needing, happy to take PRs to support multiple backends for the same rust code :)
    Mason Fischer
    @masonforest

    happy to take PRs to support multiple backends for the same rust code

    Yesssss! So glad you're willing to be supportive of other backends. I don't think we'll have a perfectly matching APIs but I think that's okay. I think there's still a possibly that the same code could run on multiple blockchains with little to no changes made to it.

    I believe mantle already makes this optimization and only load the members from storage that are accessed in a given method. Essentially an implicit 'lazy' is added to the types

    But I imagine in a token contract, for example all balances would be stored in the same member

    eg

    #[derive(Service)]
    pub struct MyToken {
       balance: Hashmap<Address, u32>
    }

    If that's the case then reading a single balance would require you read the whole HashMap, no?

    state costs are paid up-front, but at a contract level, you can specify an expiration

    Contract expiration is an interesting solution. I haven't heard of anyone doing that yet. Are you required to specify an expiration? Can I re-up a contract if I want it to stay around longer?

    maybe the place to look is at serverless code like amazon lambda or cloudflare edge workers. there are cases where the types of RPC handlers used in those situations do benefit from having a file system

    I think serverless code and blockchains code will have different requirements and therefore should have different APIs. I think we'll want blockchain code stripped down as much as possible because it'll have to run across so many nodes. Some people are predicting blockchains will replace AWS. I'm not so optimistic. Like I said before though, I guess if I don't need a filesystem for a specific contract I can just choose not to include it :)

    i think having an implicit base token is also a useful abstraction, especially for things like being able to bundle a direct cross-contract call with value transfer

    You can do cross contract calls with value transfer with a token contract! :)

    Just call token.transferFrom() in the contract being called. This means you'll be able to pay contracts with any type of token when calling them instead of just the native one. I imagine if you do go the native token route someone will build a wrapped native token contract like what they've done with Wrapped Ether. It'd be great for this just to be the default and not need a wrapped token!

    --

    1. Do you plan to post docs on the ABI-type thing you showed today (Demo.json) I'd love to have that standardized as well if possible :)

    Thanks again for the demo today! Looking forward to seeing where this all goes 🚀

    Will
    @willscott
    you're right. for now the whole hash map will get loaded. eventually we'll want to implement our own collections to be more efficient
    the current thought around contract expiration is that if an expiration isn't specified we implicitly price it at 100yrs
    or something of that nature
    if you make a model of cost of storage decreasing over time as humans get better at technology, 100 years looks a lot like infinity
    i believe this is a similar model as eg archive.org use for estimating their costs of archiving data indefinitely
    we'll get the demo code and abi up on youtube soon
    Mason Fischer
    @masonforest
    :thumbsup: :100:
    Gavin P
    @Ether_Gavin_twitter
    Hello! Curious to know more about staking on Oasis, but didn't find anything in a cursory search.
    Will
    @willscott
    @Ether_Gavin_twitter , expect a tendermint / cosmos like model there
    Gavin P
    @Ether_Gavin_twitter
    Interesting, thanks @willscott
    Is there any more info on that anywhere?
    Will
    @willscott
    Coming soon!
    ImpressoLabs
    @benbeh
    Hi Everyone !
    Will
    @willscott
    hi @benbeh :)
    Coincidence (Jon)
    @coincidencejon_twitter
    Hi @benbeh =) welcome to our lobby.
    If you haven't already, take a look at our Blog https://medium.com/oasislabs
    Mehdi Abou
    @Meabo
    Hello there, I got a non technical question. Is that true Oasis is going to change vesting terms and lockup for its investors?
    Coincidence (Jon)
    @coincidencejon_twitter
    Sorry @Meabo but we are not answering questions regarding the token sale or release details. This is a technical discussion lobby. Also I don't believe we can discuss those topics regardless at this time.
    Shabir
    @Smart_Shabir_twitter
    Where can I get the
    Token matrics
    Coincidence (Jon)
    @coincidencejon_twitter
    @Smart_Shabir_twitter, sorry, but they are not released to the public at this time.
    Coincidence (Jon)
    @coincidencejon_twitter
    Hey everyone, we have a meetup coming up in San Fran!

    WASI for blocks and Wasm for sand!

    When: 6:00-9:00PM - Thursday, July 25th
    Where: Oasis Labs - One Sansome Street, San Francisco, CA

    Join us for our first meetup at the Oasis office with the WebAssembly SF meetup group.

    Oasis engineer Nick Hynes will present on his work developing and implementing WASI for blockchain and Google engineer Max Bittker will share his experience building sandspiel.club (https://sandspiel.club/), a falling sand game optimized for the modern web.

    Register here! (https://www.meetup.com/wasmsf/events/262570712/)

    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    Hey guys where I can find Oasis Labs whitepaper?
    Will
    @willscott
    We haven’t released a full white paper (in particular we are not yet talking about incentives or structure of tokens) however many of the technical inspirations for the system are described in https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.05141
    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    Thanks for prompt response, Will. Can I deploy privacy preserving Ethereum smart contract using Oasis labs platform?
    or make private Ethereum transactions?
    Will
    @willscott
    that's the goal :) it depends a bit on the specific semantics you mean when you say "privacy preserving smart contracts"
    per https://docs.oasiscloud.io/en/latest/ - what oasis adds is the ability to keep the internal state of the smart contract confidential
    but if you take a normal ERC20 token contract, it won't magically become confidential - the contract typically will need at least tweaks to make sure it isn't leaking internal state with that change in semantics
    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    Is there any description how I can execute Ethereum transaction with private inputs using Oasis labs solution?
    Will
    @willscott
    https://github.com/oasislabs/web3c.js is an addition of confidentiality to a web3 endpoint
    We’re in the process of making that more ergonomic though , so a simplified client we will be maintaining going forward that deviates a bit more from web3 is https://github.com/oasislabs/oasis.js
    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    what type of cryptography u use to execute transactions with private input?'
    Will
    @willscott
    end to end encryption uses the Deoxys-II MRAE block cipher
    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    Does oasis rely on Ethereum consensus ? is there any ledger?
    Will
    @willscott
    The consensus layer is based on tendermint.
    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    PBFT proof of stake ?
    Will
    @willscott
    Right
    Will
    @willscott
    👋 The Oasislabs.com homepage has a link to our new community Slack ('Community' -> 'Forum' to link to it). We'll probably try to transition from here to Slack for discussion.
    Andrei Ivasko
    @cyberbono3
    @willscott hey do you guys utilize trusted execution environment (TEE) in Oasis?
    I know you guys use end to end encryption uses the Deoxys-II MRAE block cipher (AES-based tweakable block cipher). is there any technical info how your encryption works in details
    Will
    @willscott
    @cyberbono3 we do support tee execution. The full details of that are somewhat linked to the larger protocol design or the oasis system, which we have not made public quite yet.