These are chat archives for Sensorica/valuenetwork

17th
Dec 2015
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:02
@christroutner @mfrangos I'm happy with whatever you two decide.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Dec 17 2015 16:03
me too
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:04
@christroutner I'm trying to organize my work schedule. When do you think you might be ready to discuss the details of a project API?
And when do you think you might be ready to start trying to use it?
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Dec 17 2015 16:04
btw, I fixed the context agent in the process Tibi created to be NRP UI/UX
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:07
And (question for both @christroutner and @mfrangos ) do you think the API should start with all the projects a person is associated with, or a project and its selected details and connections to people, work in process, past contributions, etc?
Or something else?
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Dec 17 2015 16:10
As a note, in Sensorica, they haven't done much with associating affiliates with lower level projects. In some cases this is done, but mostly people are affiliates with Sensorica. So if we were to use that agent relationship, someone would need to clean up the data. Which wouldn't take too long I would think.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:11
We can also infer person-project relationships from commitments and events.
Doesn't need to be explicit.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Dec 17 2015 16:11
Right
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:15
What I imagine is that a person could click on a project. The API would supply 1) the members of that project as well as 2) information needed to log time against it. I'm not sure what (2) would be, maybe just a link, or the information I need to generate a link.
A link to the existing NRP page for the project would be an excellent 3rd piece of information. The one that shows the amount of effort contributed by each member.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:18
"information needed to log time against it" depends a lot on whether somebody wants to log nonproduction time or production time.
Production time requires at least a process.
And would be easier if they had already committed to do something for a process, in which case the amount of info they need to enter is minimal.
Would be good to understand the planning and execution cycle of a process that is intended to create something.
NRP also has another logging option (just to keep things confusing) called Todos, which were requested once upon a time, but I don't think anybody uses them much.
(This is all part of a pioneering process. You end up with extra stuff that was tried and abandoned, a lot of which we have deleted, but some of which remains.)
(And you end up with more than one way to do something.)
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:22
In regards to the mailing list: Would it be possible to create a new category in the OVN infrastructure group (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ovnsinfrastructure/categories) specifically for the NRP software? Someone with admin rights would need to do this.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:22
You may rethink any of this over time, but for starters, might be best to understand what exists.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:22
@bhaugen I think for now, let's just focus on non-production time.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:23
It's the simplest.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:23
Yes, let's keep it simple. My primary focus right now is to get something simple and crude working so that people can play with it.
More of a toy than a useful app
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:25
Re the OVNI group, I have admin rights, but am reluctant to do it, because @mfrangos was thinking about a new group.
So will wait for her opinion on what to do.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:28
Ok. That might be best. I also just sent an email with the suggestion to Tibi
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:28
I think you and Maria should make the call here. Those who do the work, manage the work.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:29
Ok. I'll shoot an email to Maria.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:30
I am not sure what the right approach is
I wanted to keep the new effort completely separate from the parallel work of fixing what we have now
but I am not sure if everyone is on board with that
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:30
Right now it seems the most logical place to put it would be to create a new Discussion Category in the OVN mailing list to deal specifically with NRP software. (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ovnsinfrastructure/categories)
But however we do it, I'd like to create a mailing list sooner rather than later. It's becoming a bottle neck.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:32
I also think that while playing around with new ideas is great, I really really wanted to do this by using the proper steps of UX design that have been proven. That is, doing the use cases first, laying down the UX and UI, etc. I don’t think there is any danger in working with a theme and basic graphic styles before we do this work but when we get to the functional elements of a product, things can get messy. It’s been my experience that proof of concepts (whether pages or full apps) stay and become the product. So this is a concern of mine.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:32
My primary desire for the mailing list is 1) to capture discussions like we've already had and 2) give semi-daily updates to group on what I'm currently working on.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:32
I agree about the danger of becoming a bottle neck.
would this be a separate mailing list?
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:34
I would hope so. I wouldn't want to intermix our mailing list with other OVN projects.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:34
sounds good then
let’s do the mailing list so that we can stay on track
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:35
That makes me happy. @bhaugen can you set that up? I also sent an email to Tibi, so he is aware of what we're doing.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:36
Did you decide on a different category in the existing OVNI google group, or a separate google group or some other kind of mailing list?
if it's a new list, you two would be the admins.
You don't need me.
If it's a new category, I'll do it now.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:37
I thought of creating a new group, but our project is highly related to the OVN stuff, so I thought a new Discussion Category might be best.
It doesn't necessarily need to be UI/UX specific either. We could just create a Category for NRP software.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:38
The only concern I have with that is that we know it’s separate (but related) will others who are already part of the list know?
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:39
I think they'll figure it out by navigation. But what, exactly, is your concern?
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:39
The list has a setting where new posts much select a category, but it doesn't seem to be enforced for posts from gmail, which is where I always post from.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:40
Hmm... well, if for some reason we need to move the group we always can.
Err... our mailing list.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:41
I want to remain on track. And this project has lost momentum too many times. I am worried that we are going to end up losing time if we have to explain things like “but this is about the redesign of the software, not about the current one.” I may be totally off base though. So let’s do what is simple and easy to do.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:41
If you go to the group online, all the messages are separated by category.
but people who only interact by email, like me, won't know the difference.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:42
That’s what I thought.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:42
I suspect all my posts from email go into the general category.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:42
Ok. Well why don't I create a new mailing list then. I'm fine with that.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:43
ok with me.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 16:43
Ok
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:43
send an announcement to the OVNI list and I'll subscribe to the new one.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 16:49
Ok, I created the group and sent out invites. @bhaugen , can you forward the invite to OVNI? I'm not very familiar with the OVNI group and email addresses to send it to.
Now that the mailing list has been dealt with, I want to address @mfrangos concerns about UX design:
That's a valid concern, Maria, about using propery UX design. I share it too. I don't want to move too fast, but I'm realizing that there are issues between the mock up you created and what is easiest for me to create from a codeing-point-of-view. I want to create a crude mock up for you to play with so that we can shed a light on those issues.
I'm also realizing that I don't need the API to create a mock-up. I'm hoping to finish coding something up this weekend that I can send to you to play with and for us to review.
However, if Bob can start the ball rolling on the API, that would be great. I think we can develop some simple API calls with the information we have now.
If Maria and I can hash out a middle road between her UX/UI vision and what I can actually achieve with code, then I think it would give Bob and Lynn a much clearer picture of what we'll need from the API.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 16:55
I'll start the ball rolling on the API. @mfrangos - I agree with Chris on this. We will run into a lot of early-stage technical issues that we need to fight our way through. I know what you mean on the demo becoming the product, but we will count on you to identify the weeds, and we will pull them out.
Lynn and I have probably deleted as much code as we have written in NRP.
We are not reluctant to remove stuff.
I assume Chris is the same.
One thing I think would help is to put the new stuff on a different server for awhile. Then people don't get the idea that it's the production system.
But think about that.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 17:01
Good analogy with the weeds.
Ok, I've got to get back to my real job. ;-) I'll keep an eye on this channel, but I may not be very responsive.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 17:01
Re timing on API: I need to install the django-rest-framework app and do some testing, so it won't be available immeidately.
thanks chris.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 17:02
No worries. Bob, I'm going to try to send you some links. I've been evaluating different frameworks like Backbone.js, Angular.js, and Ember.js. I'm gravitating towards Backbone.js and the framework (all of them really) have expectations on the REST format. I'll be sending you links to those. I'll be able to code around anything you create, but it'll be best to follow standards if we can.
That will all come after you get the django-rest-framework installed though, so don't let these worries block you.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 17:04
ok, I'm not worried.
Have you looked at React? We have a good friend who uses it, and might provide some tech help.
Not pushing it though. Your pick.
TiberiusB
@TiberiusB
Dec 17 2015 17:06
I linked the new mailing list on the OVN wiki page http://valuenetwork.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page#Discussions_-_social_media
It would be nice to write a description for this mailing list and link back to all the other resources.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 17:08
@TiberiusB I think Chris and Maria intend to do that, but Chris had to get back to work.
TiberiusB
@TiberiusB
Dec 17 2015 17:08
k
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 18:39
I don't think I have a user account on the OVN wiki. I checked the user account list (http://valuenetwork.referata.com/wiki/Special:ListUsers) and didn't see myself listed.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Dec 17 2015 19:03
@mfrangos would it be useful if I help you to get a more complete set of user stories that will need to be supported in the person to projects to logging scenario? A survey will probably elicit more, but I can do a pretty good base set in a day or two, from my experience, and we can add as we get more. These can be folded in to both your design for this page and Chris's code on the earlier side, and help to minimize the risks you are rightly concerned about. I will also vouch that Bob is actually not exaggerating when he says we have thrown away half our code! I'm getting ready to happily throw away another big chunk as I rework exchanges, because now we understand where it needs to go next, which is a much better place than where we first took it.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Dec 17 2015 19:52
Hey @fosterlynn it would be useful. I don’t want to impede the process or seem inflexible because protoyping ideas is important. On the flip side, sometimes too much planning can derail a project. I just want us to be mindful of ensuring we have a solid product at the end of it. @christroutner I can’t wait to see your work! :)
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Dec 17 2015 21:19
@christroutner I think on the referata wiki you can create your own account. Let me know if that doesn't work for you.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Dec 17 2015 22:55
I'll give it a shot