These are chat archives for Sensorica/valuenetwork

26th
Jan 2016
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 00:39
For the new NRP, I'd like to avoid pagination if possible
Endless scrolling is a preferable UX experience
I've had endless debates about this in my last project :)
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 00:43
It's ok if the DB is paginated, and is preferable than a giant dump of data. The endless scrolling feature can be implemented in the UI with Backbone.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 00:44
Just a note: There aren't THAT many people associated with a project. It's not like it is process or event data.
(But I don't know all the technical implications.)
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 00:46
OK. I didn't realise you were talking about the DB
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 04:56
I am building the UI for the project page in vector. It’s painful in the beginning but once the elements are in place it’s a lot faster than using Photoshop. There is nothing like creating wireframes in full colour to get a sense of what the NRP could be. @christroutner I have a technical question. Can we have a context specific toolbar below the top navigation bar? For the project page we spoke about being about to watch / join a project, subscribe to notifications, apply / make live a value equation (based on permissions) and a few others. I think it would be a good idea to group them (when it makes sense) in a centralised location.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 05:24
@bhaugen @fosterlynn I have a question about projects vs work. In the present system, there is all work and my work. I understand that in this case, not all work is considered a project. In my head, I had the following hiearchy project > work > tasks. But then I realised that certain things like office maintenance and clean-up and a host of other tasks do not belong to a project. Any thoughts about whether work deserves it’s own top level navigation? I think things could get messy there. At the same time, Projects is important because that can attract new people.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 13:16
@mfrangos well, that is basically true conceptually. But it is not technically project vs non-project. It is production vs non-production, whether a process is involved. Even non-production work takes place in a context, which could be a project or a network in Sensorica's case. So Tibi records stuff under Building Sensorica, which is a project. But that is kind of a left-over from when projects were not context agents, now you could just record non-production work directly under Sensorica....
There are also to-do's, which also require a context (agent). But don't have a process.
But I don't know if this will help you with the UI. It is true that non-production work feels different to the user. And in the current UI, it is a quick and easy page with one line per work item, not all the stuff surrounding a process.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 13:22
Also note that non-production work is sometimes recorded against one of the more project-like contexts, just because it is done specifically for that. Like maybe some kinds of administrative work, vs cleaning the lab, which benefits all projects.
A note of explanation on All Work and My Work: All Work is meant to be a project management tool, or perhaps a network management tool, where you can see everything that is in process that needs to be coordinated. Was designed when Sensorica had weekly meetings to coordinate. My Work is meant to be a personal landing page, showing everything you are working on, or could want to work on.
So - if this way confusing, ping and we can do a call if you like.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 14:12
Hey everyone, Radu is joining the project. He is a legacy programmer but willing to learn new technologies as well. Radu expressed an interest in the project the other day.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 14:13
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 14:13
@Radu62s awesome! What kinds of things are you interested in learning?
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 14:14
For production work, the structure is project->[order]->process->task->contributions
where [order] is optional.
And actually task, as somethign that was scheduled beforehand, is also optional.
work is a contribution.
Might also be financial and resource contributions.
And design and other citations.
And consumption of consumables, and use of equipment and space.
All of those go into value flows and value equations.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 14:36
And yeah, welcome @Radu62s !
Lynn and I are legacy programmers too. What kind of legacy programming did you do?
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 14:38
Yeah, we go way back. I started with Cobol-CICS. :)
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 14:55
Hey @fosterlynn @bhaugen thanks for the clarification. I just want to get the path to work / projects right. I sent out an email to the network because this is one of those things that I think needs to be decided with as much input as possible. For me, what makes more sense conceptually, does not necessarily make the best UI/UX. So it’s a bit of a puzzle. But it’s OK because I love a good puzzle ;)
By the way, I am working on the survey doc and will send that out one more time for input. I’m doing it in Google docs.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 15:32
@mfrangos

But it’s OK because I love a good puzzle

@mfrangos that's good because there should be lots!
If you like models, I can walk you through the data/object model, which gives you all the relationships.

Or not, no pressure! :)
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 15:34
:)
I am actually trying to think of the best way to approach everything. My original plan (to do things in certain steps) is not going to work because it’s complex and we are working within an open structure. I have to say one thing though, the mock up of the project page is looking good so far. It’s just one screen for now until I get a better sense of the relationship but it’s a starting point. Am trying to finish it off tonight or tomorrow. I am also meeting with Josh on Saturday at Sensorica (and others in Montreal if they want to join) to brainstorm around the UI.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 15:40
I also wanted to mention something about the visuals I’m doing. Although we have an open source theme, we don’t have the elements in vector format. So I’m recreating some of these elements because it will help me go faster in the long run. Also, if we are going to apply for funding or pitch the project to others, we need hi-resolution graphics. Which we will have because vector images can scale up to any size.
I just found and downloaded a bootsrap vector kit! This will speed things up :)
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 15:47
@mfrangos Looking forward to the mockup! And to what you and Josh come up with! Will be happy to do validation against the data model for you if you'd rather not feel like you are constrained. There are a lot of relationships in the data and you can often get where you want to go in indirect ways. And maybe we'll need to support new requirements, who knows? But the model is pretty simple at its core and will support a ton already, if you buy it's basic value flow structure. So don't necessarily make assumptions based on the current UI.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 15:48
I am building the UI for the project page in vector. It’s painful in the beginning but once the elements are in place it’s a lot faster than using Photoshop. There is nothing like creating wireframes in full colour to get a sense of what the NRP could be. @christroutner I have a technical question. Can we have a context specific toolbar below the top navigation bar? For the project page we spoke about being about to watch / join a project, subscribe to notifications, apply / make live a value equation (based on permissions) and a few others. I think it would be a good idea to group them (when it makes sense) in a centralised location.
@mfrangos That should be possible. Show me what you mean when you get further along on your wireframes. But it should be possible.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 15:48
OK, I won’t. I am learning what people expect from the software through the discussion we’ve been having.
I have a question about search. But it’s a big question. I will try to formulate an email around that.
Ok @christroutner just want to make sure that I don’t add things that will be difficult.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 15:56
@mfrangos from an implementation standpoint, I think a context-specific drop-down menu would be very straightforward to create, but I should be able to do a navigation/tool bar too. I just need to figure out how to render it.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 16:03
So far, I was thinking about the following actions (specific to the project page and to some extent based on permissions because anyone should be able to view projects, even visitors): watch project, join project (initializes popup with form requesting to join), bookmark page (adds to sidebar bookmarked places), edit page (based on persmissions for that project and it could get very complex - from adding a photo, adding a recipe to use to creating a value equation), print page (anyone). I’m not going to branch off into all these sub actions just yet but obviously some of them are easier than others. There are not that many items - the question is placement. I don’t like the idea of burying them in an overflow or drop down menu but don’t want to complicate things from a technical side either. Maybe I could find a toolbar that we could integrate in there, from another free theme.
I forgot, there is also subscribe to notifications for this project
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 16:19
I like your ideas and I like the idea of not burying navigation items that should be in-your-face in a context sense. I can figure out the menu bar.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 18:34
@christroutner - I added affiliates to the contexts api.
This is an experiment in a couple of ways:
  1. affiliates are the people who are explicitly associated with a project. Other people may be contributors to a project but not an affiliate, and some affiliates may never contribute
  1. The format gets a little recursive (the affiliates show their list of other projects).
OOps, stuck in the markdown numbering conundrum again...
  1. When you get to Sensorica, you will see a lot of affiliates.
But do the resync and update from upstream again and you will see what I mean.
And then maybe suggest improvements.
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 19:37
Ok, this is going to be interesting because I've done several commits since I synced with the upstream. I'm not sure how its going to mitigate the changes.
Now that I've had some experience playing with forks vs branches, I have to say that I'm liking branches a lot better. Merging back and forth between branches seems really straitforward.
I'm excited to try out the new API changes. I work Tues - Thurs, but I'm working remotely now, so I should be able to find time to play with it.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 19:39
@bhaugen I’ve been thinking about the meaning of affiliate so thank you for answering a question I had in my head :). However, I still don’t quite understand what an affiliate is. What do you mean by “explicitly associated with a project”?
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 19:40
  1. affiliates are the people who are explicitly associated with a project. Other people may be contributors to a project but not an affiliate, and some affiliates may never contribute
Is there any way we can filter based on participation? I'm thinking that it would be handy to get the top contributors to a project, weather or not they are an affiliate.
@bhaugen correct me if I'm wrong on what I'm about to say. @mfrangos if you look at this People API output, you'll see that each person has an array attached to their data called 'projects'. I think this is what he means by explicitly associated with a project. I'm guessing people can still contribute to a project without having a 'project' tagged in their profile.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:46
The people:projects array includes both explicit affiliation and project contributions.
Affiliate is Tibi's word, used to be called "member": you'd need to ask him why.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 19:48
Re the term affiliate, Sensorica started with "member", and changed it to "affiliate" because of the nuances of the term, perhaps a bit more P2P flavor, Tibi could explain further if you need him to.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:48
I used it in the API for Sensorica consumption, but it won't last there, because it is their term, and we will have other user groups..
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 19:48
oops just crossed with bob
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:48
won't be the first time...
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 19:48
true
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:48
Is there any way we can filter based on participation? I'm thinking that it would be handy to get the top contributors to a project, weather or not they are an affiliate.
Yes, I'll figure out some ways.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 19:49
Thanks for the clarification!
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 19:51

Now that I've had some experience playing with forks vs branches, I have to say that I'm liking branches a lot better.

@christroutner I'm with you there! For this kind of operation anyway. Forks are a lot more heavy duty, good for big projects with lots of people working on lots of things, as far as i can tell...

Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:51
By the way, if you look here: view-source:http://nrp.sensorica.co/accounting/agent/326/
down in the script section, you will see that the data for the charts is all json.
Lynn Foster
@fosterlynn
Jan 26 2016 19:51
when you have more than one person working on the code, you have to decide to do it one way or the other, or you'll have conflicts
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:52
We can give you that kind of data in the API.
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 19:52
By the way, I am using the PV Characterisation project as an example for the project page. It makes things a lot easier when you can test out information using a real project. I’m getting close to completing the “landing” page for a specific project but need to drop off for a bit and do less exciting work. I’ll give you an update later tonight on where I’m at but it’s come a long way!
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:52
ok, good to know. I'll use the same prject for examples in the future.
Same viewsource for PVC: view-source:http://nrp.sensorica.co/accounting/agent/311/
But but but... "less exciting work"
tragic
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 19:54
I originally used it because it’s one of the ones I’m familiar with but am now realising that showcasing the project itself and what it looks like in the NRP (for a pitch, funding, etc.) good be a good thing.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:54
yup
it's one of the projects that will make or break them, too
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 19:55
@bhaugen it’s not so bad. it’s my thesis (which is going well) but I’d rather be designing today.
Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 19:55
ok, I'll save the tears
Maria Frangos
@mfrangos
Jan 26 2016 19:55
:)
Chris Troutner
@christroutner
Jan 26 2016 20:04

By the way, if you look here: view-source:http://nrp.sensorica.co/accounting/agent/326/ down in the script section, you will see that the data for the charts is all json.

I see what you mean. That's handy. I can reuse some of that code to filter for contribution.

Bob Haugen
@bhaugen
Jan 26 2016 21:24
I'll figure out how to serve the json from the API.