These are chat archives for Spring-Chobby/Chobby

29th
Oct 2016
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 06:18
Chobby has changed a bit since I last tried it. How do you launch it from git now?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:09
easiest way is to use http://zero-k.info/lobby/chobby.exe and launch it with dev
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:09
launch it with dev?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:09
dev as an argument
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:09
cli switch?
ahh ok
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:10
I made a shortcut to it "...chobby.exe" dev
with that target
the hard way is to launch spring with some command line argument or to put something in springsettings.cfg
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:11
It looks quite nice
any idea when connecting to spring server will be a thing?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:11
no
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:12
With the latest alpha I didn't find any bugs, except skirmish points at a specific game version which is kind of a fail
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:12
how much do you want it ? :P
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:12
presumably @gajop will be back and fix the protocol there
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:12
for regular spring server?
hmm I would say quite a bit actually
using chobby for zk makes it pretty apparent just how far behind the current lobbies are
What I mean by that is chobby is what I expect when I get a game
assuming that makes sense
oh btw
when downloading large listss of items, once the list goes below the window threshold it is no longer listed ont he completed section
Matchmaker is pretty nifty :-)
I really wish ppl here used discord for chobby communication. It's a lot nicer for stuff like this, although the activity feed sidebar is quite nice
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:16
is browser discord nicer than this?
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:16
It's light years ahead of this tbh
the only thing it doesn't support is global push to talk (for obvious reasons), global ptt requires the app
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:17
seems meh
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:17
Discord make communication among projects a lot more seamless
As an example, BA <-> Evo communication
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:18
if they use discord
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:18
i don't think this is intended for development like gitter
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:18
Yeah. Now this has soime nice things like direct linking to issues or commits
I think you can reference issues with just #368
yeah
see that is niiice
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:19
a lot more stuff actually
i see no real benefit of using discord
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:19
It has a lot of dev integration, but misses out on a lot of chat related goodies
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:19
in general i don't have a complaint with gitter so not likely to switch anyway
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:19
I'm not saying you should
I said I wish
:-)
But it is really nice, unfortunately no one is playing atm, so I can't really test much other than hosting stuff, which all seems to work nicely btw
@gajop A thought I had, is perhaps it would be useful to devise a method of communicating with autohosts outside of lobby chat
As in sending it commands and such
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:23
yes it would, text commands are ugly and get in the way of chat; but i don't have the time; i've been completely slacking with regards to chobby in general
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:24
I understand
just wanted to plant the idea :-)
I myself have been devoting tons of time to Evo and BA lately
Make BA great again, apparently lol
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:25
BAR (and thus BA) seems dead
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:25
I imagine after next BA release things will be much more lively
There is a ton of improvement going on
Damn shame that Behe won't let ba use bar models
With models, I could very likely get BA almost completely IP free
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:26
he's not going for incremental improvement
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:26
It's not incremental though
That's the thing
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:26
he wants to make a full release
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:26
Oh I misunderstood your usage of incremental
Honestly, in OSS, non-incremental simply isn't realistic (imo)
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:27
well i understand why
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:27
Because with non-incremental, people get tired
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:27
it's the same reason ZK wants to do a proper steam release
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:28
They could share the newbie frustration :-)
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:28
with incremental release you run the risk of showing a bad version and losing people early
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:28
But thanks to discord and a TON of work to the game and lobby, we are retaining people slowly but surely
Perfect releases don't happen ;p
Best you can hope for is mostly non-fail
:-D
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:29
do i need to bring knorke to talk to you about steam evo?
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:30
Steam evo then or now?
The fact of the matter is that the game didn';t have issues
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:30
then
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:30
the issues stemmed from the lobby
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:30
that's irrelevant
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:30
its the same discussion. The game is the whole thing that the user sees
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:30
Well let me rephrase
the game itself didn't have any big issues, some imbalances, but the game itself worked fine (but ofc there were ati/amd issues at the time)
But you switched the goalposts on me
I was talking about BAR release, not steam
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:32
same thing, if they release it half-finished (or half-working), they risk ruining their reputation
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:32
But release early, release often is generally a better format in OSS
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:33
we're talking about open source games
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:33
And not releasing at all? What does that do for your reputation?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:33
I think there is a difference between the general category of software and games
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:33
Let me be clear, lobby is different and has a different ruleset
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:34
so there were ati/amd issues? Are you saying the game sdz itself worked fine but Spring didn't work?
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:34
so chobby is not part ofthis in my mind
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:34
as a gamer i look at the complete package
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:34
It was release on spring 94.1 if memory serves. If you remember, 94 and 96 had loads of issues with ati/amd drivers, or perhaps vice versa
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:35
94.1 was probably broken by lua mutext
but maybe not
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:35
Interestingly, I get reports of basically 0 issues with spring 103 and amd
103 is the new 82.b4 for me
or was that 72... it's been a few years :-D
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:36
I recall 82.b4 as a long lived number
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:36
Yeah myself as well, like 1.5 years iirc
was a fantastic version
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:37
well, in comparision
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:37
For me, 103 is like that. My only gripe is pathing sometimes gets a little screwy on sc style maps
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:37
versions occasionally bob their head above water and appear mostly bug free
but under it all the features increase
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:37
But hell, sc2 pathing gets screwy on sc2 style maps too lol
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:38
idk why you keep distinguishing between lobby and game.
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:38
Because to you and I the distinction matters, to the player they are the same
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:39
yes, we were talking about players though
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:39
So when he brought up steam release, I was reminding him that the issues stemmed from the lobby, not the game
From a technical standpoint, that matters
Circling around to my original point
that chobby is what I envision a game should be like
so /pat yourselves on the back
The zk presentation is excellent. Is zk using it as the main lobby now?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:40
no
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:41
Pity. Are there bugs that prevent it? Features missing?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:41
it lacks missions. Technically ZKL does better for getting people into a tutorial at the moment
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:41
Anyway. Hope you understand why BAR isn't released yet. They want it to be fully done before releasing.
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:41
Fair enough, but I still maintain that that is not a realistic prospect. Not in the spring universe
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:41
Are missions related to the campaign or?
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:42
Does the mission editor have the ability to not rely on a specific game version yet?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:42
how are missions unrealistic? A game creator should just package this all together and give people a lump to download
with the missions in it
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:42
I was talking to gajop :-)
about bar
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:42
right
missions are possibly related to the campaign
I'm not sure
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:43
What happened to zwzsg's mission creator that used elaborate startscripts?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:43
missions (ie, mutators) can exist on rapid so it should be easy enough to just give it tags to download and go from there
game creators can just plonk a mission in and autoupdate through rapid if they need to
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:44
As far as I can tell, that functionality doesn't exist in 103 (dep on rapid tag e.g. zk:stable)
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:44
I think it exists in dev
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:44
oh, derp I misunderstood what you were saying
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:44
but I'm not so sure that it is a good idea anyway
depending on rapid tags sounds like a way to fail
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:44
It has pros and cons
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:44
I think local missions fail if you need the internet to run them
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:44
if your game updates often (e.g. evo) then it is a pro
if your game updates only rarely, then it is a con (e.g. BA)
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:45
I think you should make an autoupdater in the background that pushes new mission versions
game changes can break the mutator
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:46
Honestly, the issue is that the game may change fairly dramatically from one week to the next. Perhaps new ui elements get added, or new indicators, or new abilities for units, or perhaps various units are removed or repurposed
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:46
not even that extreme
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:46
So like I said, it's simultaneously a pro and con really
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:46
Local missions with rapid dependencies dont need internet connection. If you want the newest game, you just update the rapid tag, but the dependency is local.
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:47
the mission creator may have done something which the game removes or changes slightly
forb it would be useful for genericness if we had another game
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 07:48
I think no one in Spring has the manpower to maintain old game versions, so rapid tags come as an obvious choice to me.
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:48
and there are things I don't know how to do
I want to move everything to a config folder in LuaMenu
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:48
What do you mean? Another game for what? Mission creator?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:48
how do I move the mouse cursors
another chobby game
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:48
Oh chobby?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:48
as in currently you can pick generic, zk or zk dev
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:48
Well I['m sure my guys would be pretty thirilled if you wanted to give evo a go
But wouldn't that put a lot of work on you guys at this point?
I'd prefer not to be the straw that broke the camel's back haha
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:50
its already pretty generic
and, I guess, you would be putting in work to figure out the last few things
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:50
Fwiw, evo's actual requirements are pretty minimal, really. Just ability to work nicely with modoptions in hosts is really the only huge requirement (My guys like playing with numbers lately lol)
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:50
although there are some semi-blockers for genericness
I hardcoded in ZKs modinfo.lua (into its section) because chobby can't read it
it can't read minimaps so I added minimap overrides
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:51
I'd be ok with giving it a shot. I'd just need the rundown on what I need to do to make it easy for you guys to deal with
For minimaps, would accessing them via Springfiles api as weblobby does be a possible method?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:52
no
none of this should be read from the internet
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:52
Ok fair enough :-)
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:52
local hardcoded seems better than springfiles randomly going down and breaking all the minimaps
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:53
true story
I suppose another possible route would be a tasclient-like process that goes through extracting minis (which took for gawdawful ever)
Modinfo being hardcoded is no big deal
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:54
it means that there are stupid extra steps
to make a game work for it
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:54
for evo, it rarely if ever changes, and in the event of that, I could push new steam version pretty easily
What would I need to do in order to make it less painful? (maybe I should say, is there anything I can do) -- not just modinfo, I mean the whole thing in general
Like I said, I'd prefer evo not to end up being a thorn in your side because I haven't done x y or z
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 07:57
idk if there is any formatting etc.. work that can be done to change the amount of work required
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 07:57
Other than modinfo, what all is hardcoded?
I assume that anytime any of that is changed, the executable has to be recompiled
oh no, the executable merely downloads the engine and launches it
its all the same chobby from months ago
basically
but I want to improve it like this Spring-Chobby/Chobby#367
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:00
to minimize server impact, couldn't I ship it with all the pieces already (maps for example)?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 08:00
yes
to do that you send all the maps next to chobby.exe
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:00
wrt the minimap issue, is there an automated way to extract minis?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 08:01
maybe something which self-extracts them
I got my minimaps from the ZK site by asking KR to send them to me in a zip
so I guess the answer is yes
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:01
Wouldn't springfiles have an exhaustive archive?
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 08:02
I don't want to include 7000 minimap files and that doesn't deal with new maps
so far I'm treating the minimap thing as a workaround which should be solved by getting spring to find the minimap for me directly
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:03
That sounds reasonable :-)
So, would I add evo config to the chobby repo? https://github.com/Spring-Chobby/Chobby/tree/master/LuaMenu/configs/gameConfig/evorts for example?
or should I put it elsewhere?
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 08:05
sounds like a reasonable place
you have push rights, go for it :P
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:05
crud, map whitelist looks painful
GoogleFrog
@GoogleFrog
Oct 29 2016 08:05
yes
although I want to make the format nice before then
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:06
I would essentially use the maplist that my servers use
which is very similar to zk's list
with a few additions
Default springsettings? Me rikey
Hmm, does modoptions need to be part of it? I'm guessing so. That is more tricky, cause those do change, but I can do changes in batches. Atm I don't need to add any, so it's not too concerning to me at the moment.
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:11
Tbh these configs look pretty simple, gimmie day or so (1am atm) and I'll push em, you guys can let me know what I missed. I should have quite a few people happily willing test. When I originally showed chobby screenies, knickers were drenched, so I imagine it's not gonna require much convincing lol :-D
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 08:12
for real testing you'd want uber support
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:12
uber as in uberserver?
Gajo Petrovic
@gajop
Oct 29 2016 08:12
correct
ForbodingAngel
@ForbodingAngel
Oct 29 2016 08:13
btw
in your settings I see you have bumpmapped for water
be careful, it has a tendency to fail in very bad ways with some ATI cards
Steam people had enough trouble with it to the point to where I force water 3, 1 or 0