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    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    @DualBrain The default font is different between Framework and Core, it causes all controls in Core that don't specify a font and size to render larger and in my case not fit. I changed the Framework Font to match the Core default font (I agree with the change it looks better), adjusted everything then ported to Core. My VB converter is a very large project and runs significantly faster under core, plus starts faster if I prebuild it (but some features that depend on accessing files break, likely my issue). I wanted to add some UI elements to specify some defaults and preserve compile time Constants plus allow setting of user defined constants but anything that touches Settings.Designer breaks my application at runtime and I get VS errors while modifying settings, also the runtime VB Setting savings on close don't work out of the box. I had to write my own MsgBox which I hosted on NuGet if anyone needs it, with source on GitHub and its close but not perfect due to lack of some functionality on Core.
    I have used TryConvert and it works reasonably well now on VB projects.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    Yeah, I'm definately experiencing the "rough around the edges" aspects; I just keep reminding myself that VB isn't officially supported at this point. ;-) (That doesn't mean that it doesn't/can't work, just that it's not super easy to make the transition at this early stage.)
    Also, what is the Core default font?
    As for MsgBox, I too was using that... switched to using MessageBox.Show to get around the issue.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    Answered my own question: Segoe UI 9pt
    It looks like the default behavior of the DataGridView regarding the column headers has changed. Actually setting it in Form.Load produces the same result in both projects: EnableHeadersVisualStyles = False (I want the column headers to be all the same color - not different based on the "column" that is currently selected as I am also doing fullrowselect.)
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    I use MsgBox way too often to change it. I ported the Open Source version of MsgBox and wrote all the tests to verify compatibility so it is a direct replacement. Even though the tests pass the semantics are not exact because VBHost is not implemented and I can't find its source. I hope someone is collecting all the behavior changes. I could not ever find out the new Font since I have not dealt with it since January.
    You can search for MsgBox on NuGet and you will get mine or the source is available on my GitHub page. I just updated it to 3.1 not that it matters.
    Jay Asbury
    @vbjay
    I stopped using msgbox years ago. Make the switch and it makes things a lot easier.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @paul1956 I'll take a look at MsgBox... I value "muscle memory". ;-) Speaking of muscle memory, one of the annoyances with the "core" WinForms experience is that the toolbar item to "view code" is gone. You now have to either right click on the item and choose to view code or edit the form... or use keyboard to do so. However, when using the keyboard... I had it open the winforms designer in the .NET Framework version when highlighting the source file in the "core" version. If I unload the .NET Framework version, it seems to work as expected. So still very rough around the edges. ;-)
    @vbjay I ran an (unofficial) survey regarding the usage of MsgBox; as it turns out more than 2/3rds of the people that took the survey either use it as their primary and/or mixed. In other words, less than 1/3rd stated that they never use it in their WinForms development. So it being removed will potentially impact (good or bad) the majority of those who are developing in VB... that's a pretty big impact. We still haven't recovered from the last time things significantly changed in the spirit of "course correcting" existing VB behaviors back in 2001/2002. I'm not saying changes are bad, just that the problem isn't really all that simple (it's not binary).
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    @DualBrain Using MessageBox is a lot more complicated and does not give the exact same semantics, MsgBox is part of the VB language just like "End". The reason I have heard it is not included and from my experience, is there are/is missing API('s) needed to "fully" support it that don't layer well. My version would be a breaking change (not that I understand exactly what is broken) I think I has to do with Z-order between Forms and/or blocking execution and I think whatever it is doesn't effect my use.
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    I created #2501 against WinForms to ask that these changed to included in the Read Me for Core and VS
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @paul1956 Do you have a direct link to 2501? Clicking on it in here doesn't take us there. I'd love to take a look see.
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    Jay Asbury
    @vbjay
    I fully support MessageBox and its idea. Msgbox returns a Msgbox only enum result while MessageBox.Show returns a DialogResult that matches with all other common dialogs.
    Jay Asbury
    @vbjay

    Winforms: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.forms.dialogresult?view=netframework-4.8 Of course that matters if I am writing winforms or not.

    WPF: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.messageboxresult?view=netframework-4.8

    I use the one needed in the ui framework I am using.

    They made it so that all you have to remember MessageBox.Show in either ui framework.

    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    there are other differences as I understand it having to do with z-order and/or relative position. That was one of the reasons MsgBox couldn’t be part of the initial core port. MsgBox depends on ParentWindow and (I)VBHost which i don’t believe is implemented yet.
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    It looks like WinForms Master now has MsgBox,InputBox, SaveSettings, logging and more VB stuff but I have no idea when that code will be shipping.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @paul1956 SWEET!
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    Who else here uses DevExpress?
    Jay Asbury
    @vbjay
    @DualBrain Me. But not in a long time.
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    I did but the last time was 2009.
    André Obelink
    @obelink
    I do, on a daily basis..
    Kathleen Dollard
    @KathleenDollard

    I am working in dailies to get the application model working. If anyone has been working on that, or is interested, let me know.

    My status, it requires some extra stuff in the project file, but when we got that straight, we found a bug on something missing in the runtime. That is in PR and should be in daily builds next week.

    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    @KathleenDollard I am interested. Your comments are a little vague. If you mean SplashScreen, Single Instance and Title definitely. At first I liked the C# SplashScreen model but I noticed in broke older VB Framework code.
    Aaron Glover
    @aarondglover
    @DualBrain I use them and Infragistics
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    Has anyone seen Tests just stop running, and when you look in Output Window/Tests you see
    No test matches the given testcase filter `FullyQualifiedName=XUnitTestProject1.XUnitTestProject1.UnitTest1.AdditionTest|FullyQualifiedName=XUnitTestProject1.XUnitTestProject1.UnitTest1.EqualsTest|FullyQualifiedName=XUnitTestProject1.XUnitTestProject1.UnitTest1.MultiplicationTest|FullyQualifiedName...` in C:\Users\PaulM\Source\Repos\VBUncheckedMath\XUnitTestProject1\bin\Debug\netcoreapp3.1\XUnitTestProject1.dll
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    If anyone cares the issue above happens when a VB core app gets an error initializing before main starts and the framework code that catches those errors isn’t there do the app or test quietly exits.
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    Is anyone interested in a Vb code coverage UI based on Coverlet? I just finished something usable and will post to Github if anyone else cares. If there is enough interest I would like to merge into VS.
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    Merge this app into VS as a Add-On instead of a standalone application. https://github.com/paul1956/Code-Coverage
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    Can anyone share with me why CanFocus, Focus, Focused, etc. on WinForms controls is "hidden" in VS Intellisense? Is it really something that you "just have to know" and anyone trying to explore is left high and dry?
    Karen Payne
    @karenpayneoregon

    I just wrote a TechNet article on dynamic ordering/sorting Entity Framework data, perhaps this might be helpful for new to vb.net and want to work with Entity Framework may find helpful

    https://github.com/karenpayneoregon/EF-Sort-VisualBasic

    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    When did IntelliCode support for VisualBasic get added?
    (Doesn't appear to be in 16.4.4... but is in 16.5.0 Preview 2.0.)
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    @DualBrain I don't know but I love it and it really speeds up typing and getting the right pick the first time. I don't think it was in Preview 1 or maybe it takes time to learn.
    DuckHeadSoftware
    @DuckheadUK_twitter
    To introduce ourselves. Our apps are all in Visual Basic and for the Windows Store only. We've looked at C# so many times but each time it slows us down, is less readable, and we're sticking with VB.Net for all our projects; if that means waiting for .net core then we will and then start to upgrade our apps. We have so much experience in VB.Net (going back to the original BASIC on DOS) and we've built internal libraries with 10's of thousands of lines of code, so we'd never move away from Visual Basic.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @DuckheadUK_twitter Welcome!
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    @DuckheadUK_twitter Welcome, moving to core today is not very difficult. TryConvert does almost everything, MsgBox is available as NuGet, the only showstopper is SingleInstance, and I haven't checked its status lately in the Repo.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @paul1956 Difficult might not be the right word; however, not having the forms designer in release does place a bit of a damper on things. ;-)
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956
    There are many ways to use the Framework designer for simple things. Before using TryConvert change the font to new Core default font, adjust all the forms so you don’t immediately need it. Use the backup project file from framework to open the core project and edit forms, you can use that to add additional forms as well with Mads file nesting extension. I have been porting stuff for a while now and most things take an afternoon including updating to .Net editorConfig file rules which is available under Dotnet/samples on Github.
    Using 16.5 preview 2 provides a VB code fix for Null checks but crashes a lot if Vb Forms are open in designer. I do all form changes in Framework and the close each form before opening in Preview 2.
    DuckHeadSoftware
    @DuckheadUK_twitter
    @paul1956 All our apps are WPF (we used to do UWP but it was too slow and lacked functionality). Until Microsoft support WPF designer and full vb.net (we do use the my namespace, but not that much) we can't move over. Our apps are also, generally, disk intensive, so Core 3.0 won't improve things performance wise and we already work around a lot of the .Net performance bottlenecks for disk io. But we'll start the transition as soon as it's ready for production so we're on the latest framework :)
    Paul M Cohen
    @paul1956

    @DuckheadUK_twitter the disk performance and startup is where I got the biggest boost (but I never worked around any issues) when I moved to Core 3.1. I pulled My out of Winforms GitHub repo and just wrapped it with

     #If Not netcoreapp5_0 Then

    I am still waiting for road map so I will have some idea when it "is ready".

    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @DuckheadUK_twitter From a business point of view, I am in complete agreement. All of my (current) projects are still in .NET; however, I am experimenting with a new project idea where I'm building it in .NET Core (WinForms). After stubbing my toes repeatedly, I'm now working on this project in .NET with a mindful eye on moving it to .NET Core. Basically each step forward, I'm trying out the project on .NET Core - this project is something I want to do not something that is under any pressure to get completed as it currently isn't made public to my clients (at this time). It also allows me to experiment with what is currently working, what isn't and (to some degree) influences some of what I'm working on since I am keeping an eye on the future. @paul1956 much of work arounds you describe are the very reason why there is hesitation in the move forward... it needs to be more complete and, if changes are required, simpler. ;-) Until then, some of us who are OK with getting cut by being on the bleeding edge will have to continue pushing for things to, well, continue. :-D
    DuckHeadSoftware
    @DuckheadUK_twitter
    @paul1956 I don't want this to get into a .net discussion (it is a vb forum after-all), but UWP disk access has memory leaks, indexer can not be relied on, and performance, even with partial storageFiles is unusable for large numbers of files (>400). .Net 4.x is excellent, but we had to put in a lot of work around multi-threading when performing tasks on lots of files. Take something simple like copying 1,000 files, our code can do it approx 20% faster than standard .Net with a list (and disk IO is the limiter)
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    @DuckheadUK_twitter Out of curiosity, are you completely bypassing some of the built in file io and opting instead to utilize Win32 (Interop)?
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    As for the comment about discussions, I appreciate the fact that you are being considerate; however, please don't feel that anything has to be excluded in these discussions as long VB is at the core of the discussion. I've had the long opinion that, especially with regards to VB, the lines are pretty blurred regarding where the language, tooling, framework and api exists.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    (With that said... If there is any conversation that anyone believes is damaging/hurtful to our community, please let me know so that it can be reviewed / dealt with.)