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    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    Interestingly enough though is that in this release announcement they are talking about the underlying API that can be leveraged to draw cross platform; elsewhere I see that it is possible to create an F# MAUI application through the template only approach and that there will most likely not be "designer" support for F#; but nothing stopping F# from working so it certainly seems like it is possible that "something" can be done with VB. But, as I said, I'm not going to dig into it until the ground is a little more stable as things could easily change (one way or another) so any significant investment into investigating what can/can't be done at the point is way to premature.
    But it is promising that there does indeed seem to be an API approach; if that is the case, then there shouldn't be any reason why VB can't be utilized. Having a nice "designer" support may be missing, but if that is all that is "missing" I can work with that. ;-).
    Cristian FRC
    @cristianlt23
    @DualBrain
    Thank you for indicating the articles to be read and also for your clarifications regarding MAUI.
    I'm hoping VB won't be left out this time!
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    WinUI 3 appears to be what I'm interested in as WinUI 2 is only for UWP. There is a comment regarding WinUI 2 that it does support UWP/VB applications including .NET Native; however, in the "what is different between" WinUI 2 and WinUI 3 is that VB is not mentioned in the comparison for "what languages are supported". However, this seems a bit odd to me as WinUI appears to be exposing API calls... and it is only in WinUI 3 that you can use this from Win32 style applications. So I'm guessing this to mean that WinUI 3 (as of version 0.8 <--- not even version 1.0 yet) doesn't have project templates and/or (if there are any) designers (and related source generators) for VB. Given that it's not even at the 1.0 stage and, more importantly, you can't even deploy a non-packaged application with the supported release channel version I feel it is still to early to dig too deep into "what exactly WinUI 3" actually is (or rather will be). There's still too much dust in the air; so will have to wait for the dust to settle a bit before I can dig in more. I will say that of all the projects out there, WinUI 3 (aka Project Reunion) is the one that interests me the most as I primarily build Windows applications. That's not to say I'm not interested in other projects; just that this one is most relevant to what I do day-in-and-day-out. I'm assuming (based on other threads I've seen) that the future of MAUI is also built on top of WinUI 3 (when targeting Windows). So I think that the true answer to any questions about WinUI 3 and/or MAUI is still "let's wait and see" what becomes of what is currently being built - once the dust settles we can regroup, evaluate and (if necessary) come up with a plan for what can be done (assuming there is interest). Given the comment made in the MAUI repo (the July 8th I mentioned above) I am also assuming that we as a community may be able to fill in the gap (if necessary).
    (Most of this is me making assumptions; if anyone knows of any specifics that prevent VB from working with WinUI 3 and/or MAUI, please share.)
    Cristian FRC
    @cristianlt23
    your hunches are quite interesting and make sense.
    Very cool !!!
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain

    In this episode of *VB Supported"... check out https://github.com/JoeMayo/LinqToTwitter

    I haven't tried it myself, but there are samples in VB. 👍

    Cristian FRC
    @cristianlt23
    👏👏👏👍
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    @VBAndCs
    This 2007 forum thread makes me very sad. The writer saw the 2017 MS VB strategy 10 years earlier!
    https://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?500263-Future-of-VB
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    the author is not correct
    we don't have two teams here
    there is a single team that supports both C# and VB.
    i also find this a bit bizarre
    do you just go out looking for posts from 15 years ago about people negative about the future of VB?
    you seem to invest a huge amount of energy into negativity around the VB space.
    to the point htat i genuinely question if you want VB to succeed, or you more want to just find reasons to believe it will fail since it's not doing the things to support the narrow cases you want it to support.
    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain
    I agree with @CyrusNajmabadi; will add more about how the 2007 post is way off - with evidence to support this.
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    @VBAndCs

    we don't have two teams here

    There was no Roslyn back then. And most what he said about doing every thing twice for two similar languages I heard the team literally repeating 10 years later.

    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    @VBAndCs

    do you just go out looking for posts from 15 years ago about people negative about the future of VB?|

    No, I just bump into them everywhere along the vb timeline!

    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    @VBAndCs
    The clear point is that vb demolition started back then, as it is obvious from the post and the MS team member response there, that vb was the most famous and vb express had the highest downloads, but all new techs and sdks has C# support. This is why the post predicted VB devs migration to C# , which already happened when new ASP.NET and Xamarin frameworks didn't support VB.
    It's hard to believe that kleinma saw that coming, while the team couldn't. At least we are sire now that he warned them! So, Why we still got the same result?
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    there was roslyn back then
    we weren't open source though
    No, I just bump into them everywhere along the vb timeline!
    perhaps if you go looking for things to support your negative view, you'll always find it
    like how people get sucked into social media spirals.
    I also literally never understand your position
    because you ask us to both not change anything, because that's painful for companies to adapt to
    but you also want us to change things non stop with new apis and sdks
    my position is that you simply like to do nothing but be negative.
    Basically, you exist only to be a naysayer/killjoy
    no matter what happens in any direction, you will always view it with negativity
    See our recent conversation on working with you to fix the issues in VB.net that you reported.
    you complained that we weren't doing anything about it, but hten wouldn't even work with us to try to fix it with you.
    but all new techs and sdks has C# support.
    this is amazing to me.
    it's like you view any support of C# as being a negative for VB.
    Yes. we support C#. It's a popular language (like with VB).
    the support of C# doesn't diminish that (and i really wish you'd stop looking at everything positive toward C# as something to complain about).
    If you want to help VB, help us with it.
    CyrusNajmabadi
    @CyrusNajmabadi
    If you want to just be a negative nancy, go somewhere else and spread your negativity there.
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    @VBAndCs
    @CyrusNajmabadi Do you get any kind of therapy? I guess you sldo, and this is why i go easy with you, becuase i understand your obsession and it is not that hard to use it to drive you crazy. Guess what: your product is not perfect, and your remarkable work has issues and your policy about vb and many products makes devs angrey and juge you every were. A normal healthy man will accept the criticism and use it to make his product better. You on the other hand are very hostile to anyone that report issues or even make new proposals! In fact this attitude explains where all these fatal decisions come from. You all need help man. I hope you get it. Happy miserable night :D
    By the way, I found it siilly to respond to your sick accusations. I am one of the very few active in vb community, and you are very aware of vazor, record source generator and sVB. I always interpreted the negativity accusations to youe mental issues or something, which is not strange among computer geeks, and this is why i always ignored them.
    Mohammad Hamdy Ghanem
    @VBAndCs
    But for your info, i went to that vb.nt forum to announce sVB 1.3.2, where i saw this old thrad. I don.
    I don't need to search for anything. Tens of thosands of vb devs are cursing you every were as you destroy their business. You are very cleaver in makking your customers do bad publicity oaout MS. Your rival s are proud of you.
    Cristian FRC
    @cristianlt23

    Guys, there is no reason for discussion, we have to find another way if we want VB.NET to have a competitive future.

    1st) MS definitely loves C #

    2nd) with Guido van Rossum working on MS Python is the new focus.

    Perhaps the Basic world will definitely take a new turn, there are many dialects and everyone is separated trying to gain market share.

    VB.NET in my opinion is still the best variation, but it is also the most isolated variation.

    If we want a place in the sun, we should behave like the F# community or even the C# community, we need to find more people willing to evolve VB.NET, but I doubt that's what VB.NET developers want, it seems that most are already enjoying the idea of ​​following the same steps as C# on Mercury.

    Until we create a good path for VB.NET, discussions are in vain

    Cristian FRC
    @cristianlt23

    My main questions regarding VB.NET are:

    1) Will VB be able to evolve through a community?
    2) do we need MS to make this happen?
    3) Will MS implement any community-created suggestions?
    4) Or we will need to create VB.NET. org?
    5) if we create VB.NET .org, how is the relationship with Roslyn?
    Can anyone answer these questions?
    I think that's our real concern with VB.NET.
    What do you think?

    Cristian FRC
    @cristianlt23

    now someone help me please!.

    What is today the best and most current set of tools for WEB development with VB, I'm a little lost with several options and little material to help me choose, honestly I'm lost in it!

    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain

    @VBAndCs You just couldn't wait until I provided a full response to your post and had to jump with defending your negative views. Many of us have real jobs, families and other commitments. I, for one, was involved with my 4yo and 8yo for Halloween activities. I saw the post, took a quick moment to read what you pointed to and added my quick response stating that I would take some time to respond to it more fully.

    YOUR (and other people's) behavior is literally part of the problem. I would argue that it is the biggest problem with VB.

    Let me illustrate the problem by taking things outside of the tech space... in 1930 there was a situation where, because of negative thought becoming reality most banks had no money ("Panic of 1930"). Why did this happen? A very few number of banks had issues causing discussion to occur that this must be the trend that all banks will have (regardless of location, size, stability, etc.). This discussion led many to believe that banks were failing (although they weren't) and caused a widespread panic across the entire country with people going to the banks and removing all their money... in turn causing the very thing that they were concerned about. Negativity has VERY REAL CONSEQUENCES. It is literally a happening today. People believed that there would be no toilet paper... made rush of people mass purchasing toilet paper... leading to a shortage of toilet paper.

    Is this behavior destructive? Yes. Let's discuss for a moment vaccines. A "doctor" (who, at the time was but no longer is) published a very faulty study that vaccines (in general) were causing autism. It gained traction through media and has held strongly by people of a certain ilk. The study was peer reviewed and found to be utterly false; so much so that either due to this study and/or other factors (it turns out he was motivated by money to generate this faulty study) the doctor in question had is license banned from practicing medicine in the UK. That doesn't change the fact that the ongoing damage has been done. People believe that vaccines are bad and the ripple affect is that we have deceases returning that have been previously irradicated along with the fact that (combined with politicization) there is a heavy resistance to taking vaccines for COVID-19.

    These are called self-fulfilling prophesies and negativity has real, very lasting consequences.

    Taking to this another slightly different angle. Do you want to be surrounded by negativity? Do you go to places where there is just a bunch of people complaining all the time about this-and-that? Do you think anyone else likes going to gatherings where this takes place? No. Of course not. No one wants to join a community of negativity. So why do you think it is a good idea to continue to be so damned negative? It's exhausting! @CyrusNajmabadi is absolutely correct in his assessment of you. You refuse to take a moment to do any sort of self-reflection. Please, please, please take a moment to do so. And remember the old adage... "If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all."

    I recently started reading about the subject of "Dark Psychology"; you are... very literally... falling deep, deep, deep into several aspects of this type of activity. Please stop.

    None of this takes away from your contributions; with that said, it's difficult to gain momentum and/or contributions from others if you are going to approach your projects from a point of negativity.

    We should be discussing how we can help. What can we do. Where can we affect change. It is OK to see the negativity... but helping to spread it serves what purpose? The problem in your approach is all you are doing is trying to help solidify a narrative. If you believe that VB is dead, then please... shut the hell up and go elsewhere. It's not that hard of a concept. If you want to affect real change, then start by being speaking positively, activity with positivity and accept the helping hands of those doing the same...

    Cory Smith
    @DualBrain

    I remember a Microsoft representative that shared a story with me that has stuck with me for many years; I'll attempt to share it here. The story goes that when he was a Scout Master (for those not familiar, this is a volunteer role that is handling a group of children) he would have a lot of "complaints" about this-and-that from the various parents. This negativity was ongoing and he had a great way of dealing with it within these common meetings where this would occur. He would listen to the problem being raised and, upon the parent finishing with their complaint, he would respond with something along the lines of "so you are volunteering to resolve this".

    This illustrates several points:

    • It's really, really, really easy to complain about things - it literally cost nothing and takes near zero effort.
    • It's really, really, really hard to solve many, many, may problems.
    • Most people don't want to put in the effort.
    • Most people simply can't resist complaining.

    Some quotes...

    “Change is inevitable. Change is constant.” – Benjamin Disraeli
    “Be the change you wish to see in the world.” – Mahatma Gandhi
    “If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude.” – Maya Angelou
    “Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” – George Bernard Shaw
    “Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.” – Barack Obama
    “Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.” – John F. Kennedy
    “The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance.” – Alan Watts
    “When we are no longer able to change a situation – we are challenged to change ourselves.” – Viktor E. Frankl
    “He who is fixed to a star does not change his mind.” – Leonardo da Vinci
    “Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands.” – Clint Eastwood
    “We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses.” – Carl Jung
    “If you want to change attitudes, start with a change in behavior.” – William Glasser
    “In order to change the world, you have to get your head together first.” – Jimi Hendrix
    “Change the changeable, accept the unchangeable, and remove yourself from the unacceptable.” – Denis Waitley
    “Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.” – Victor Hugo
    “A lot of people get impatient with the pace of change.” – James Levine
    “When you blame others, you give up your power to change.” – Robert Anthony
    “To change what you get you must change who you are.” – Vernon Howard
    “Any change, even a change for the better, is always accompanied by drawbacks and discomforts.” – Arnold Bennett
    “We live in a moment of history where change is so speeded up that we begin to see the present only when it is already disappearing.” – R. D. Laing
    “A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.” – Winston Churchill
    “When it becomes more difficult to suffer than to change… you will change.” – Robert Anthony
    “I don’t know if you can change things, but it’s a drop in the ocean.” – Julie Walters
    “I can’t change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.” – Jimmy Dean
    “Change your thoughts and you change your world.” – Norman Vincent Peale

    and very true for the current C# space (seeing a lot of very heated differing opinions regarding ongoing changes)...

    “Change occurs in direct proportion to dissatisfaction, but dissatisfaction never changes.” – Douglas Horton

    and oh so true...

    “Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better.” – Sydney J. Harris

    and I so love this one...

    “I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.” – Stephen Hawking