feels good to be home ;)
So looking at your OwnerTopmost, I think you should do Parent and RootParent
Owner is an ambiguos term for UI ;)
especially with a game
Can do - thanks for the guidance.
of course
fucking got back from nyc to the largest black widow ive seen in a long time, hanging out in my garage
im an arachniphobic for the record
is there a todolist ?
I would like to be a contributor
are you planning to drop XNA and port to monogame or something?
so we can support linux and mac
thats not the plan
as far as I examined
ultimaxna works great
except missing features
yup
I will try to
implement .uop loading
ya thats not hard
ya
openuo has the code
i told Zane to use it
oh really?
that's nice then
if there is already an implemented one
codes slightly different, but should be easy to change to work with ultimaxna
I have no idea why I am still interested in UO after tens of years..
;)
i dont have much interest other than to help with implementation
hard to even install UO anymore
so its hard for me to test features
or make new ones
personally
i get burnted out to fast
but i also do this for a living
so coding at home isnt as fun as it use to be
I wish UO was scalable at different resolutions
I think enhanced was made for it
but ultimaxna is not based on enhanced files right?
correct
but it isnt impossible :P
just implementing 3d renderer, camera etc
would be enough to handle
its the same rendering
as far as the world goes
they just render a 3d model in orthographic projection
on top
they might actually do a true 3d world
i havent actually looked much
yes
but 3d camrea is what makes it scalable
hard to tell fro mthe pictures
u can do that with uxna
you mean zomming?
pure 2d is really eye-killing in high resolutions
not scaling
yes
thats possible with uxna
completely possible
just might look shitty if you zoom in to much
the original UO client does it in fullscreen mode
what I mean is
uo enhanced
has 3d environment if i am not wrong
the Original UO client uses 100% GDI+ to draw. When you flip the Fullscreen flag on in the options, it uses GDI+ to draw, and DirectX to render it scaled
its still a fixed camera
but
so like i said, its hard to tell if its true 3d
as long as the environment consists of 3d models
you can do any transformation
without getting it aggy
jaggy*
just like the original 3d client, yes
but
only for some thing
s
im pretty sure the ground isnt
btw
you can transform in ultimaxna
the textures are the problem
not the fact that it uses 3d models
as long as the artwork is 2d
it is not scalable
not true
for higher resolutions
what determines that is the resolution of the textures
its like resolution hack of razor
if 2dUO had high res textures
you can zoom all you want, it would still look amazing
but it doesnt
so ya it looks like crap zoomed
the enhanced client has higher res textures
from the look of things
its a mix of 3d and 2d
I mean
the camera is more flexible
so it would look just as shitty zoomed in as the 2d client, for some things
since the models are 3d
no
you can even implement a tps camera
thats the part that isnt true
because not everything is 3d
hmm
look at the tables, benches
etc
they are the same statics from the 2d client
flowers, lamps
rocks
all the same
the models of the players and npcs, those are 3d, even the walls "might" be 3d
but its not 100% 3d, theirfore it wouldnt work
oh..
your best bet for all of that would be Iris
lol
ea is FUCKING LAZY
not really
they are smart unfortunately
the money in games isnt in the programming or the engine
its all in the artwork and assets
why spend millions on a game thats what 15+ years old when they made this client
when they can do just enough, 200-300k? and give it a slight polish to attract players
at least
they should remake classic client
it still contains 20 years old code
GDI drawing etc
so shameful
cpu wasting
thats what they tried to do
with the enhanced
but people wont let go
of the classic one
so they have to keep it around
but
enhanced isnt the same
that's the problem
some and most of the people like 2d uo
I honestly like enhanced but
ya, the problem is, lets say you make it, its hard to get some of the things people like about the original client in a DX client
some ppl like the studdering
which is caused from GDI
and 15 fps rate
cant really do that in DX
not to the same effect
someone really hard to do in DX is those transparent gumps
really strange
why would people like stuttering, 15 fps client..
I cant even enter luna with i7 processor in a crowded shard
nastalgia
with that client
or, cause thats what its been like for 20 years
so the thing EA has to ask is if they want to dump a bunch of money into a 20 year old project, making it look exactly the same, or close to how it currently is... when they already have a client ppl are using and paying for without them having to spend a dime on...
decision is clear to me
imo UO is dead, EA is just cashing in what ever they can cause some ppl still pay that monthly fee for whatever reason
So heres a funny thing aobut this project
Zane played UO way back, for like <1 year or something
lol
hasnt played it since, doesnt play it today
ea should have made it pure 3d before wow came out
meh
it wouldnt have been the same
UO is a 2d game isometric game
3d UO woulda just turned into a general run of the mill mmo
trammel si what killed uo
it turned it into a pvm fest
with power leveling all the day
no risk/rewards
i dont believe that
boring
i never went to trammel
and played it well after trammel existed
found it just the same
what killed UO was EA buying it, taking it from its original creator, nto paying attn to what the Ultima story was/where it went/where it should go
then adding everything in AOS, ninjas/ pirates/elves
samurais
to a game that had no lore ever written in any of the the series games, about any of that
all for money
money ultimately killed what UO was
I also think what killed UO was the players
trends kill games
but they only kill it in the eyes of the select few who dont like the trend
but each time a new trend occurs, more people leave
so, after a few trends, you now are stuck with a very large population of players that left, little bit by little bit who no longer like what the game has turned into
and so over 20 years of trend changes in a game, you are left with most of the people that played it in the past, not wanting to play what it was
er what it currently is rather
and wanting to play what it was when they were really into it
hence, emulation, just like every single MMO out there, there is an emulation community trying to recreate the times and experiences they once held as the golden age of their game
thats basically how all MMos work ;)
for me, UO was at it's peak in 97
T2a came out, and it started going down hill
99 was the peak with t2a i think :D
for you sure
thats what i mean
;)
everyone is different because we all played at different times
i didnt like 99, cause they introduced housing rules
i played back when your key was everything
thats what i remember as fun, and scary, going to your house
lol
once they added friends/banning/etc
that was the turn toward trammel
as you put it
so for me, trammel didnt kill it, it was dieing well before trammel
as far as carebearing went
yea
safe housing was bad
but i liked the new lands
it was so dark
i only went to them to steal
outside of that i didnt play them
i spent 99% of my time scamming and pking
me too
i also liked adventuring
they shouldnt have listened to carebears
but instead put more rules related to notoriety
democracy :)
for example you couldn't open your bankbox
while pk
as far as i remember
in the first uo
u could
only in bucs dean
den
it was unguarded
the
banker npcs didnt respond
i am almost sure
they did
thats where i banked ;)
100% sure
bucs den was the pk bank, but it was scary as fuck cause there were pks, so basically u always got into a fight when you went to the bank
good times
we need risky games
thats why i play dayz
nothing is safe
;)
running simulator
haha
ive given up on mmos
i just play poe (what diablo 3 shoulda been)
path of exile*
its mmo hybrid
its basically diablo 2, but looks modern gfx-wise.
you'd probably like it
hardcore mode if u want risk ;)
i need a
hardcore mmo
like uo
pre trammel uo
gl
lol
what about iris client?
is it dead
ya
for a few years it seems
..
we need to promote UO back to its glorious days :D
its been tried
plus i dont really wanna play it lol
new generation doesnt want it because graphics aged like a milk
it has a great artwork but
field of view is giving headaches
i tried to play uo a few months ago
but it's really too hard
with the modern PCs
back then he had 800x600 or 1024x768 CRT screens
we had*
I mailed the EA recently about why don't they just try a pre-trammel server, just for trial and see what it gains
and the response was funny: "we lost the old sources"
ya thats probably true
that's a huge company and they don't archive things
no one really used source control back then
whoa
nah, that just wasnt something they use to do
not back then
at least a working copy should have been archived
even the oldest games have archive
it was an ever evolving thing
no one goes back
no mmo ever really does
lol
cant think of a single one
runescape
for example
divided into two branches
classical and new
sure but they used source control
if the osi could be free and have at least one pre-trammel server..
living the dream
it would seriously affect things
probably not gonna happen though
yep
osi could possibly be free but
no chance for old system
btw I really liked enhanced client I dont know why
it feels good
;)
i cant get into the smooth movement
it feels weird
when you get used to it
its good
look how many ppl bitch about it
and nothing has ever happened
lol
god
i really hate every single person in EA
seriously what is the reason for rejecting this?
just why
do they earn from enhanced? no
it's the same game with different interfaces
its all $ man
to get a programmer to fix this
would cost a lot
no one these days really knows GDI+
sad bug true
but*
i take that back
a lot of ppl know it, but not at a C level
not sad actually
they use it at alevel of C++ or C#
which is easy
but UO uses extremely efficient and performant GDI+ calls
the fact that they can render as much as they do all on CPU and still get 15 FPS is beyond me
there was a hack
in injection
that fixed the FPS to 30 and 60
doubt it
yes it does
it doesnt have FPS
it tried
i tried*
how did you measure?
actually yes I can't say if it was FPS
but the game was smooth
i'd have to see it, i dont believe it unless there is some time stepping code that just gets messed with
yoko injection 2013
it's in there
you should try it
btw there was a project
in t2a cd, there was UO Demo distributed with it
some guys disassembled it down
with it's scripts etc. everything
totally a first version of T2a clone
ya thats how the emu world got started
and made it an emulator :D
uodemo itself became an emulator
thats how krrios started w3c
;)
what I said happened a few years ago
uo98 or something like that
ya
but what im saying is
the entire emulation community started because of that UO demo
lol
it has server code built into it
EA's mistake
yes
all packets server -> client
I had the whole disassembly a few years ago
but got them deleted :(
so krrios and a few ppl started making emus
then krrios started making playuo
and needed a server platform for it
started RuNUO
then RunUO took off
sphereserver was a total mess
ya
with it's out of standard uo systems
it was total crap, nothing is working as intended
lots of bugs
slow and bad scripting
it was it's own machine ;)
I have 0.55i, 055r, and 056c source codes
it is extremely poorly designed
spaghetti code
unmaintainabl
btw
in the yoko injection
everyone has put something in it and got away
are you talking about smoothwalk?
FPS patch
is it renamed as smoothwalk?
im looking at the source
i dont see anything aobut fps
.text:21051DA2 loc_21051DA2: ; CODE XREF: sub_21050930+13DBj
.text:21051DA2 push offset aFpspatch_0 ; "fpspatch"
.text:21051DA7 lea ecx, [ebp+var_F0]
.text:21051DAD call sub_21001470
.text:21051DB2 push eax
.text:21051DB3 push 1
.text:21051DB5 mov ecx, esi
.text:21051DB7 mov [ebp+var_4], 22h
.text:21051DBE call sub_21018450
.text:21051DC3 push eax
.text:21051DC4 call sub_21017B90
.text:21051DC9 add esp, 8
.text:21051DCC lea ecx, [ebp+var_F0]
.text:21051DD2 mov bl, al
.text:21051DD4 mov [ebp+var_4], 0FFFFFFFFh
.text:21051DDB call sub_21023AC0
.text:21051DE0 test bl, bl
.text:21051DE2 jz loc_21051E79
.text:21051DE8 test bh, bh
.text:21051DEA jz short loc_21051E2B
.text:21051DEC push 2
.text:21051DEE mov ecx, esi
.text:21051DF0 call sub_21018450
.text:21051DF5 cmp dword ptr [eax+14h], 10h
.text:21051DF9 jb short loc_21051DFD
.text:21051DFB mov eax, [eax]
.text:21051DA2 push offset aFpspatch_0 ; "fpspatch"
.text:21051DA7 lea ecx, [ebp+var_F0]
.text:21051DAD call sub_21001470
.text:21051DB2 push eax
.text:21051DB3 push 1
.text:21051DB5 mov ecx, esi
.text:21051DB7 mov [ebp+var_4], 22h
.text:21051DBE call sub_21018450
.text:21051DC3 push eax
.text:21051DC4 call sub_21017B90
.text:21051DC9 add esp, 8
.text:21051DCC lea ecx, [ebp+var_F0]
.text:21051DD2 mov bl, al
.text:21051DD4 mov [ebp+var_4], 0FFFFFFFFh
.text:21051DDB call sub_21023AC0
.text:21051DE0 test bl, bl
.text:21051DE2 jz loc_21051E79
.text:21051DE8 test bh, bh
.text:21051DEA jz short loc_21051E2B
.text:21051DEC push 2
.text:21051DEE mov ecx, esi
.text:21051DF0 call sub_21018450
.text:21051DF5 cmp dword ptr [eax+14h], 10h
.text:21051DF9 jb short loc_21051DFD
.text:21051DFB mov eax, [eax]
lol what a speed..
so how does this help with fps?
gonna take some time to figure that out
but i dont think it does anything with actual fps
since there isnt any
i think it speeds up the animations
so it appears to be faster
but in reality its just not
hmm
well i gotta get some sleep ill try and really dig into this tomorrow
its intreguing
okay
;)
cya
later
@denizsokmen So are you going to try to implement the UOP resource loading? ;)
If so, I'd keep it in a separate namespace to start, keep things tidy. Let me know if you have any questions about how the client is organized.
@ZaneDubya @jeffboulanger told me that openuo has already implemented it
so most probably I would fork from it
@denizsokmen sure thing.
but there is another problem
the tiledata has expanded as you know
I don't remember the old and the new limit
but that would need a tweak too
0x3fff to 0x7fff something like that :P
New limit is 64bit
yes
runuo implemented it
0x10000 etc.
seems easily integratable
I will try when I get home
but of course I need to integrate uop first since the tiledata won't have an artwork to load IDs above 0x4000 because there is no artwork for them in old muls :P
Working on the last issue for Milestone 0.6!
Merchant buy/sell menus
Left this one for last because I really loathe reimplementing the legacy gumps. It's a ton of work relative to the payout.
what are the gumps other than buy/sell
which ones*
I can't say for certain. There always seems to be more left to complete. I know that the player bio/group gumps (from the paperdoll) are handled by the client and still need to be implemented...
correct
also the menu bar
<?> button
Idk if it needs to be done necessarily :D
Haha I had forgotten about that one. See what I mean, always more to do. :)
is there journal for example?
i didnt check but
Yes, although it needs better formatting for the text.
I wrote the journal gump before I added the html style handling, now I need to go back and add html to the journal.
ahh
I've forked the project
hopefully I want to do something in local
then merge request tec.
etc.*
I really appreciate your work
seriously you guys work too hard
Sounds good. Again, please keep the UOP stuff in a separate namespace, it'll make it so much easier to merge it in later.
Thanks! This is my hobby; I love programming and UO is so well documented that it's fairly easy to reimplement.
UltimaXNA is up to 65k lines of code as of this morning. Tons of time has gone into it. :)
were you on the project since the beginning
or decided to revive it?
by the way, by namespace do you mean branch?
By namespace I mean in another folder. So whereas the regular data loading is in UltimaXNA.Ultima.IO, you should put any UOP-specific code in something like UltimaXNA.Ultima.IO.UOP. Then after I've merged in your changes, we can play around with both IO and UOP so that there isn't any duplicated functionality.
okay
OpenUO seems to have handled it by abstracting the loaders
That is likely what we will end up doing as well.
for example you have FileIndex.cs
openuo has MulFileIndex.cs UOPFileIndex.cs
and a loader adapter
I was the originator of the project. About 85-90% of the code is mine; Jeff wrote the networking and wndproc/input portions among other critical functionality and has also done a ton of refactoring over the years. Basically, any time a namespace or dependency makes sense, that's Jeff's doing ;)
for every file of course, gump, art etc.
ahh that's great
And there are about 10 other people who contributed code. I've also taken some key functionality from UltimaSDK (the file loading) and RunUO (mobile movement checking).
long live open source world :P
speeds up everything by like 100x
Yes! I hope one day that people are able to use this codebase as the basis for their own ultima projects. We have a good way yet to go but I think we're very close to having the first 90% done.
:D
I think you literally wrote an MMO game actually
using ultima's artwork
that's how I approach :P
totally new mmo game
fully customizable
I am sure we will see much more advanced clients based on this
But I think the renderer might need to be changed in the future
sorry, graphics API
not renderer
And since RunUO is also open source... the sky is the limit, really. :)
since .net is now open source
we will see much advancements on mono
mono core
You mean from XNA? lol, every one says that. Moving from xna to monogame would be relatively easy but I'm not going to look into it until UltimaXNA is close to feature complete.
And there might be other better alternatives than monogame. Like I said, not looking into it for a while, but maybe, down the road.
of course
it would be the one of the latest changes
lots of features are ahead :P
if xna wasn't abandoned
It would have hope in the future but
microsoft killed it for no reason :S
Yeah. Jeff could probably offer you a better explanation of why MS chose to do that.
I'm going to take off and enjoy some down time before I get back into programming. Have a good one, talk to you later.
cya
Microsoft chose to can XNA because it was to hard to port to DX10,11,12 without breaking everything. Additionally, XNA wasn't really made for PC, it was made for XBOX 360, and phone. And since XBOX ONE uses DX12, not 9, and the phone now using DX 12 as well, it didn't make sense to continue the project.
I recently talked to the lead project manager for the DX team
he explained to me they may continue to do something like XNA in the future, but it really needs to be thought aobut. With the advances of .Net Native, its almost pointless really. Just write .Net code that uses DX# and compile down to native seems more worthwhile. Of course a nice framework would be fun, but there are so many to alreaddy choose from that Microsoft would really only be eclipsed by them if they made their own framework
For instance, Unity, Paradox3d, both very powerful .Net platform based engines
with years and years of development effort already put into them
I honestly would LOVE to port UltimaXNA to Paradox3d, and have already looked into it. The challenge being that a lot of it would need to be rewritten, a lot of the core components, and thats just not something I have time to do on my own right now.
SharpDX is a great example of how they should have ported XNA. And paradox 3d is build on top of SharpDX
@denizsokmen So i looked at that FPS thing, it really just doubles (or close to) the animation speeds, nothing ot do with actual FPS
Pretty much crap lol
its also completely obvious that its doing that in this video
its hard to see it on horseback, but when it gets switched and he runs
the animation is just 2x as fast and it looks really really awkward, cause hes moving his feet 2x per square instead of 1x
lol
what a hack
;)
what is the runuo on github?
i thought it was cancelled
sorry cancelled is not correct but stopped developing
Yes, development has stopped. Per @msturgill, they are willing to review pull requests but are not actively developing new feature requests.
I'm sure if you @ mention the maintainer's name in /runuo, he will answer.
(Gitter emails you when you @ mention someone with a link to the conversation)
Haha, dear lord that vendor buy/vendor sell menu is ugly.
thats correct, its a resting place for runuo
runuos been on github for a while, but since i dont control runuo.com, no link
but xna, oof
after having to port sallos to sharpdx (thanks for abandoning managed dx ms)
id just go unity these days