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Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

the same

I need separate folder for all aardvark projects

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

what do you mean?

does somebody recognize the problems in fshade? i suspect is is a new f# compiler service version

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@haraldsteinlechner it seems namespaces are different now

without Microsoft prefix

it might be RFC somewhere, I'm not sure

@haraldsteinlechner https://github.com/dotnet/fsharp/blob/master/src/fsharp/ast.fs#L3

aaaaand

dotnet/fsharp#6248

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

and this is the last media build problem: https://travis-ci.org/aardvark-platform/aardvark.media/builds/567925064 i suspect there is a too old f# compiler to understand inref arguments which seems totally legit - i also don't know what this should be lol

wow thank you

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@haraldsteinlechner I mean there are a lot of projects in aardvark-platform, I need to create dedicated folder and clone 'em all! :)

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

so. i just fixed fshade: krauthaufen/FShade@36fb4ee

still i find it strange that there is a package with this codebase and it was no problem then

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

ok. with this aardvark-platform/aardvark.media#24 all should finally go back to green

also the travis build of FShade should work now (there was temp downtime of a package server)

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

cool!

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

https://github.com/aardvark-platform/aardvark.docs/wiki/Status

here is the status matrix....

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

oddly, the appveyor fshade build did not trigger automatically. don't know where to set it

Dallin Beutler

@dallinbeutler

quick question. What's the difference between afun and AdaptiveFunc? I'm just trying to make a simple movement controller, and afun doesn't seem integrated with AdaptiveFunc or the Mod module. Should I be using the adaptive computation expression instead of controller?

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@krauthaufen @haraldsteinlechner hey, what's purpose of <DebugType>full</DebugType> in rendering examples?

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@dallinbeutler I'm still not in the actual code, but it seems afun is just an functional interface, that AdaptiveFunc implements. what are you trying to achieve? could you share code?

Dallin Beutler

@dallinbeutler

let controlSnake (kb:IKeyboard)=
    controller {
        let! move = 
                (kb.IsDown Keys.Up %?  V3d.OIO %. V3d.OOO) %+
                (kb.IsDown Keys.Down %? -V3d.OIO %. V3d.OOO) %+
                (kb.IsDown Keys.Left %? -V3d.IOO %. V3d.OOO) %+ 
                (kb.IsDown Keys.Right %?  V3d.IOO %. V3d.OOO)
        if move <> V3d.Zero then
            return (fun _ -> move )                       
    }

this produces an aFun, but Mod.integrate is looking for a list of AdaptiveFuncs. I guess I'm asking what the proper procedure for producing AdaptiveFunc? I couldn't find a way to make it from aFun, and the only way I saw to make one was through the 'adaptive' computation expression.

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@dallinbeutler it seems Mod.integrate is extension from here

https://github.com/aardvark-platform/aardvark.rendering/blob/master/src/Application/Aardvark.Application/ModExtensions.fs#L81-L109

@haraldsteinlechner why to re-implement AdaptiveFunc in ModExtension if there is afun from base? @dallinbeutler

it's a bit confusing

Georg Haaser

@krauthaufen

hey there, the complexity of afun und these things was one of the motivations to shift towards elm-style UI. As far as i remember, there are two implementations (one a->a and another one a->b) but the whole camera-contoller thing tends to get complex really fast. It's very likely that there are missing/bad inplementations in afun/etc.

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

yes, indeed. there are afun/AdaptiveFun from base ('a -> 'b case) and AdaptiveFunc from ModExtensions ('a -> 'a case).

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

so AdaptiveFunc and adaptive { ... } is preferred way to write controllers? shouldn't it be in base?

or instead we could to fix afun

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

or deprecate? :hmm:

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

@krauthaufen @haraldsteinlechner hey, what's purpose of <DebugType>full</DebugType> in rendering examples?

examples are generated by new.fsx and for some reason in the template this was activated. that is why it is everywhere, but honsetly i cannot imagin why it should be necessary

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@haraldsteinlechner can we remove it? VS2019 and Rider both complain in debug

Deterministic builds only support portable PDBs (--debug:portable or --debug:embedded)

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

please remove

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

OK!

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

quick question. What's the difference between afun and AdaptiveFunc? I'm just trying to make a simple movement controller, and afun doesn't seem integrated with AdaptiveFunc or the Mod module. Should I be using the adaptive computation expression instead of controller?

I'm both glad and sorry trapped into controller troubles. Glad since contribution seems to be needed. Sorry because you found one of the darked holes so early. In fact camera controllers have a long history for krauthaufen and me - and unfortunately we regularly escalate somewhat in that matter. in retrospecive we remember from our adaptivefunc stuff that it is very correct in terms of timing. What we also found is that it is rather hard to work with (maybe just because of chaos and missing docu). I just looked it up, people most often use direct construction of AdaptiveFunc using adaptive blocks. i think this is the simpliefied last version which is used the most. So in the end the whole controller thing in rendering might not be that bad if there was better documentation.
Also, there could be potential in using a real FRP library.
The first versions of those controllers appear in logs in early 2015. in later 2015 afun appears in late 2015. So to sum up, in practice people tend to use adaptiveFunc (which is a->a i thing) since it might be easier to work with. I would suggest going this way?

the misery of camera controller then shifted in media: https://github.com/aardvark-platform/aardvark.media/blob/master/src/Aardvark.UI.Primitives/LegacyCameraController.fs

this controller is rather easy to extend work with etc. we then found that it could be better in terms of timing and interpolation. then, again we escalated again and introduced a new camera controller: https://github.com/aardvark-platform/aardvark.media/blob/master/src/Aardvark.UI.Primitives/FreeFlyController.fs#L412 which allows to use multiple integration methods such as runge kutta in order to get super precise sums for non-linear movements.

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

@gsomix ahhh cool!

Georg Haaser

@krauthaufen

@haraldsteinlechner good summary of our misery 😀

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

@haraldsteinlechner @dallinbeutler it would be cool to create issue with this explanation (chat log is pretty fine)

otherwise it's lost :)

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

ok. good idea. will create one

Evgeniy Andreev

@gsomix

thanks!

@haraldsteinlechner @krauthaufen btw do you have fixed timestep implementation in rendering?

if not is there way replace render loop code with custom?

thanks

Harald Steinlechner

@haraldsteinlechner

for non-animated scenes we have no monolothic mainloop. whenever something changes we trigger rendering. why is it this way: we don't render when nothing changes. this is a nobel goal. what we have if you want to have animation, the renderwindows provide a mod called win.Time which is a Mod<DateTime>. So for animations the official recommendation is to Mod.map on this time. An example which refines this approach with higher precision timing could for example be found here: https://github.com/aardvark-platform/aardvark.rendering/blob/master/src/Examples%20(netcore)/10%20-%20NBodyCompute/Program.fs#L201
For fixed timestep animations, one can do a much easier approach, as given here: https://github.com/aardvark-platform/aardvark.docs/blob/master/src/BackgroundColor/Program.fs#L39

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