These are chat archives for andyet/SimpleWebRTC

28th
Jan 2019
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:04
damn last msg was in sptember lol T.T
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:06
Now, the last message is from today. Congratulations! :clap:
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:06
haha ya buddy ;)
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:06
What you do as hobby? Resurrecting mummies? :smiling_imp:
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:07
woooooaaahhh
apparently O.o
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:07
However, there's a saying: a quite stable software tends to have quiet communities.
So, you can get that "happening" in a quite positive way.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:08
hmm never heard that one
what do u mean "happening"
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:09
A quite active community usually laments bugs found in software. No bugs, no laments, then no comments.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:10
i see
hey do u use the webRTC api, or sometihn like simple peer on top of it?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:11
I made some apps with SimpleWebRTC in the past.
Usually, something like a "Skype clone" inside a site.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:12
did u use a turn server?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:13
For SimpleWebRTC (and WebRTC in general) you must use a TURN server, preferable your own, unless you talk in local network.
And better to have also your own STUN
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:14
so how do u make a stun or turn server?
i found this
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:14
Yep.
Not for kids, thought...
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:15
but i dont understand any of it lol
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:15
WebRTC is not as simple as some Scholars wants us to think.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:16
yea seems so. Im pretty determined to finish this project tho, i cant not finish, but this turn server stuff is a bit overwhelming right now
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:17
:thumbsup:
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:23
Coturn works quite nice, but is a bit tricky to setup.
And needs bandwidth.
7Mbps per link.
Any WebRTC TURN needs that.
A single video-chat one-to-one needs 4 links, BTW...
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:24
so do i set it up on on cloud server?
4 links?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:43
What cloud server? You need a dedicated server for your TURN. Depending on the network served, that dedicated server could need to be quite powerful.

4 links?

Up and down for John, and up and down for Mike.

At a single video chat one2one, like I said.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:45
@LuckyCyborg i see
there is no way of getting around of getting a turn server without pay it seems
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:46
Yep
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:47
tho i suppose for my project i could opt out of getting a turn server for now
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:48
That will result in a service which "may or may not work. Usually, not."
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:48
well arent the stats showing that 86% of the calls are over a stun server?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:49
STUN make the clients to find each other
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:50
yea, as far i understood, it uses stun, and if that doesnt work it goes to turn server which isnt really peer to peer
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:50
p2p is when both computers are exposed on Internet. Directly.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:51
umm, isnt peer 2 peer connections, browser to browser
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:52
Nope. It is p2p between the network ports of 2 computers.
BUT, when at least one computer is behind a modem, router, etc.. in a local network, you need a TURN to route your streams.
Basically, each client talks to TURN and STUN.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:55
how come they say that 86% of connections dont need a turn server?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:55
Not everyone do video chat, you know...
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:56
but essentially isnt that irrelavant
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:56
Many, but really many needs only a text chat or even just pinging a client for notifications.
It is a huge difference between a small notification popup that your payment is done, in a webshop site, and a video-chat.
Yet, it is still WebRTC.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:58
but if i can send a text without a turn server, wouldnt that mean i can send video?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 17:58

Sending text is done in another way than video.

Believe or not, the vast majority of WebRTC and WebSockets applications are for live notifications.

Sending text is done in another way than video.

For example, SimpleWebRTC use a small server itself, which routes also the text messages.

Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 17:59
@LuckyCyborg interesing, i see, thnx, ima keeping looking into it to just better understand how connections and routers work overall
This is a so called signaling server, needed by SimpleWebRTC itself, and which also routes the text messages without a need for a TURN.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:02
k thnx
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:02
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:03
as far as the google stun server, i can just use that?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:04
To do business on top of it? I do not think so. It is just for Testing Only.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:06
i see
well off to google i go
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:07
:+1:
BTW, did you seen the prices of SlimpleWebRTC today? https://www.simplewebrtc.com/#pricing
Up to $3999 monthly.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:10
O.o
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:10
The open source variant is alive like the dinosaurs.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:11
like the coturn?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:11
COTURN is open source.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:11
yea thats what i mean
they are like dinasaurs compare to simplewebrtc?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:12
The today SimpleWebRTC is a well payed service.
Did you really believe you make a Skype with 3 lines of javascript? :smiling_imp:
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:13
lol no, i was just hoping, i could avoid all this turn server stuff
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:14
"Plus $0.50 per additional GB of TURN usage" loves the guys to specify to every plan. You guess why?
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:15
i dont understan the question
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:16

We discussed that a TURN consumes bandwidth and network traffic.

So, even for $4000 monthly you cannot get unlimited TURN support.

Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:16
thats pretty insane
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:17
Contrary, Mr. Watson! :smiling_imp:
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:17
lol
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:19
First, try to setup a TURN server able to support 1000 video chats simultaneous, and you will see that's "insanely cheap" what they ask.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:20
is that sarcasm?
how would i detect what they ask
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:21
Nope. After working several years with WebRTC I arrived at conclusion that the video chat and video conference maybe is cheap as client side, BUT, still is very costly as usual on server side.
AND, about the much talked P2P I would say just: the cake is a lie! :smiling_imp:
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:22
because of the modern routers?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:22
Because of local networks where lives our computers.
Which are separate networks.
Pagnito
@Pagnito
Jan 28 18:23
so most p2p connections still end up not being p2p ?
LuckyCyborg
@LuckyCyborg
Jan 28 18:23
Kind of.