These are chat archives for arenanet/api-cdi

3rd
Mar 2018
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 00:43
16:43 on a Friday. This is the right time to check in changes to the game, right?
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 01:34
of course!
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 08:23
Guys I found the waffle board for the api. I see that there are some things ready for deployment. Is there any chance we get the features listed there? Or is there any other chance we could speed up api development? I mean it's not like there is urgent need for sth. to be fixed, but I would love to see continuous development for the api. I mean I have some ideas, but every idea would only work if there are people out there helping together...continuous
Erease the last word :D
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 10:39
surely they need to prioritise the big broken content bugs rather than new stuff; most of the stuff towards the right on the waffle is new content
the biggest bug being, imo, the missing map data for all of the 5 Path of Fire original release maps on v2/continents
i.e. #586
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 10:41
Hm,
Isn't this just a whitelisting problem?
I guess if they provide an interface online there would be enough players to fill the data by hand...
Also a big improvement would be a swagger interface...
They could expose endpoints while not beeing implemented. So we could implement the changes while they are implementing the backend...
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 10:54
The waffle board is, in essence, a complete lie :-) At a minimum the states of things are many months out of date, and a lot of the items are just not reflecting the real situation at all.
It is one of my personal priorities to get accurate status info out to you all, either in waffle or something else. But there's a lot to figure out.
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 10:57
Ok then how can we help that you can do your work better?
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 11:00
The continents endpoint is a little more complex than most others, and it is outdated because the actual data it draws from is old - there isn't a whitelist involved. We have a procedure for refreshing the data but it takes a lot of time and can easily go wrong. As soon as we can safely say that it's done (or almost done) we will absolutely let everyone know.
@SchoolGuy I am very grateful for the offer. Right now we mostly need guidance about what to work on first and most urgently. Hanging out here has helped me a lot with that already.
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 11:03
Would it then be easier to rewrite this backend part and stick to the output, rather then calling risky procedures which are taking a long time? I mean GW will last for a few years so the effort should be economically allocated.
In my company we have recently dropped support for one of our main products (only security fixes), just to completly develop it from the ground with agile methods and so on... And it our clients like it!
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 11:05
I wish I was not typing on my phone at 3AM because that question deserves a far longer answer... But some things are just always going to be hard. Rewrites can be a helpful tool but not in this case.
Poke me at a less sleepy moment and I will be glad to describe why this endpoint especially is tricky
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 11:07
Hm ok I guess you should sleep now :smile:, but thanks for the answer :thumbsup:
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 11:09
But I would definitely like to explore ways to "crowdsource" more and generally involve API users more in the development cycle, so please feel free to brainstorm in that direction!
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 11:16
Well like I already stated a Swagger UI would be helpful for both developers sides.
Also a web-interface where wrong values in the api can be corrected by hand from users. The users would be carefully choosen developers approved by anet. The interface could be a community project which mirrors the api, offers the api and the webinterface then generates the output exactly like the api (and if the project owner is kinky) offers more output options. I guess you would not like to host such a project because adjustments to live data by the community would not fit into your concept of a get interface for data...
But this is my personal optinion and I guess that the others here will have other opinions...
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 11:19
Swagger would take some serious effort to support - not to say it isn't worth it, but it would be a long time before we could benefit from it
I like the idea of soliciting corrections but we would need to build a good workflow for that - again, not to say "no" :-) It would simply take time. Meanwhile we can respond to GitHub issues as an intermediate solution
Enno G.
@SchoolGuy
Mar 03 2018 11:22
Yeah thats why I said that this is my opinion, I am currently developing my first api application, others here with years of experience of hosting and developing their applications should have a word on this which should count more than mine.
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 11:23
Fair :-) But I appreciate your input either way
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:03
@apoch, personally, I think there are some quick wins out there in terms of new features. For example, with PoF releasing we got mount skins that are not yet exposed by the API
that would increase for example the consistency, since GW2E can then show you which mounts you have selected (/v2/characters/:id/mounts), which skins you have unlocked (/v2/account/mounts).
Not to say that these are large missing features
But more as in, if people wish to start developing on the API internally, these quick wins might be valuable pet projects
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:08
yep, mounts and skins are high on our radar. The tricky bit is that sometimes adding relatively simple endpoints requires a ton of back-end update work, and so it's not always easy to predict what's going to be a lot of effort. For mounts in particular it seems pretty clear that it should be a priority though
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:09
also, Benjamin Arnold has voiced interest in exposing the newly announced random instabilities of fractals
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:09
yup :-)
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:10
(just trying to think with you guys right ^^)
I just think - from a player perspective - it is good to get some API stuff out there, if only it was to reduce the notion that the API is "dead"
maybe I have spent too much time on reddit
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:13
absolutely agreed. My concern is that what we choose can be equally important. e.g. if the thing we add is something really niche and uninteresting, it doesn't really improve perception at all, and instead raises the question of 'why that'
so properly listening to what everyone wants is pretty key IMO
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:14
yeah, but I would personally not mind you also slightly prioritizing that list of wishes on how difficult they are to achieve
get a few quick wins out of the way, show you are working on it, then tackle larger issues
thats just my opinion right
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:15
for sure. To be clear the community input is one ingredient of the decision. Effort required is another.
where effort becomes a major factor, I want to be prepared to at least explain at a high level why the effort is so considerable; because honestly 99% of the time external guesses at how hard things are... well, it's hard to be accurate without seeing how the sausage gets made, you know? ;-)
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:17
yeah ofcourse
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:17
so really it's all about communicating in both directions as much as we reasonably can
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:18
well, you would know as a player and programmer how easy it is to make that assumption right ^^
have you talked to @queicherius? he is probably the most knowledgeable on what people want from GW2E
and by extension - from the API
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:20
only briefly so far
but this whole thing is still getting off the ground so I expect there will be plenty more conversations to come
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:23
(Also go enjoy your weekend!) Yeah, I am really just trying to help whatever way I can. I find it great that you guys have seen the value in the API and am without a doubt that you guys would manage
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:24
(I'm at home and not really working on anything. Just insomnia.)
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:25
wait what time is it there
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 13:25
0530
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:26
bah, insomnia sucks
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 13:40
D:
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 13:49
I wonder if SAB comes with new content next month. And if it does, then the SAB endpoint is gonna be outdated too, haha.
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 13:56
just don't be afraid to close "issues" which are new features which would take sizeable amounts of resource
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 13:57
I think it was kinda confirmed that SAB was stale content
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 14:14
not explicitly stated, although it was said that there wasn't much time available into developing SAB fulltime at that time, as it would require 6-9 months for an SAB release
which at that time, meant that one living world team had to be moved to SAB, which is something that wasn't possible
so yeah, i'm still hoping it will be expanded upon one day; whether it will actually be done, i dunno
@ChieftainAlex i agree, imo it's better to close old or not-going-to-be-implemented issues in order to get a better overview of what's actually going to be done at some point in the future
but please do tag them :D
David Reeß
@queicherius
Mar 03 2018 15:37
@apoch @windwarrior I already wrote about about what people want a bit before (but thanks to gitter search i cant find it anymore), but it boils down to fixing account errors (ErrBadData), mounts & missing home nodes for the most part.
Thats from user requests, what I personally would like is different :D
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 15:46
yeah the API is pretty complete
:confetti_ball: @lye
derRAV3N
@derRAV3N
Mar 03 2018 16:22
Yeah, when we look at how it all started it's pretty good now, I can't really think about anything else than fixing little errors (looking at you, rytlock) and add missing stuff from PoF. I'd still like to see an in-game chat API and character renders sometime, but I don't want to know how much work that is, the in-game chat probably doesn't even work for the current system, as it's read only.
Reading letters would be nice, but didn't lye work on that already?
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 16:24
he was, but i don't think it's working properly yet
well, either that, or he was just brainstorming
derRAV3N
@derRAV3N
Mar 03 2018 16:26
Also now that I'm thinking about chat, seeing who is online of your friends and guild and details about them would be nice, but then you'd need to first think about player privacy or something?
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 16:37
guild member (last) online info is not going to be implemented before there's a separate ingame guild role permission for API access
friend (last) online info is not going to be implemented due to privacy reasons iirc
but this was discussed about 2 years ago maybe?
before HoT actually i think
David Reeß
@queicherius
Mar 03 2018 17:03
My personal wishlist would be /v2/account/mail,/v2/mystic-forgeand /v2/vendors (while the last two can be crawled from the wiki I have been pushing that task in front of me for ages :D)
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 17:12
I think the latter are unrealistic tho
from what I heard lye say
didnt MF have a ton of recipes for all "combine 4 rares"
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 17:12
mystic forge is just as unrealistic
windwarrior
@windwarrior
Mar 03 2018 17:13
there was something weird about it I remember
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 17:13
iirc most of the recipes are generated by scripts because of that reason yeah
hmm although, wasn't there a special rarity flag or something that the MF checks to prevent such recipes?
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 21:40
random thought here, you know how icons + tooltips would be useful for patch notes, what if the wiki downloaded a copy of the skills/traits api prior to a patch
then displayed a tooltip from before+after
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 22:01
I guess you wouldn't even need the patchnotes
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:04
But wouldnt we then have to look trough all Skill Pages on the wiki, only to look at the Tooltip, to see if something has changed then?
Or am i understanding this wrong?
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 22:13
i only mentioned the wiki because its potentially a place to display the result, has nothing to do with anything on it at the moment
I'm thinking (1) download a hardcopy of the skills+traits api in advance of the patch, (2) download a live copy of the skills+traits api after the patch, (3) figure out what changed, (4) display tooltips with before/after for the ones that changed
not sure how you'd quickly compare two datasets if you think the content of the keys has changed though
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:18
Hm.. i guess those Playing PvP/WvW would much appreciate seeing differences in the patched Skils/Traits descriptions. Altough i'm afraid to say only do PvE myself so thats something someone else could probably better tell you.
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 22:19
much as I love the patchnotes, I have a real hard time figuring out what skills/traits did before the patch
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:23
getting the data before every patch is easy, just store the ones from after the previous patch
thing is, /v2/skills still doesn't separate pve/pvp/wvw
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 22:24
well when stuff changes their id stays the same right?
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:25
eh
i think it does, most of the time
unless a skill gets completely reworked, then you might see a skill with a new id instead
but, i think that's up to the person who changes it
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 22:26
i'm sure one of you has some kind of tooltip code I can steal, right?
copy with attribution*
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:26
@madou, @darthmaim or @queicherius probably?
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:27
Besides that i don't have one; that porbably depends on the Programing Language you're using/want to use
Werdes
@werdes
Mar 03 2018 22:28
they mention the old skill most of the time when they replace a skill so that should be linked in such a case anyway
ChieftainAlex
@ChieftainAlex
Mar 03 2018 22:29
I'll try draft something tomorrow.
it'll be JS because I'm least bad at that.
basic draft can just be ids without tooltips anyway
yay something to do which isn't outdoors in the cold :D
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:33
Sigh, gitter mobile is... Disappointing.
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:33
yes it is
although that's quite an understatement
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:34
Is distinguishing PvE/PvP/WvE skills something that would be widely useful? We can put it on the list
WvW obv. But World Versus Environment is also an amusing idea.
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:37
well, we have talked about this a while ago, and got #558 out of it already
which is about traits currently, but i don't think we had separated skills back then?
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:37
Ahh that's why this seems familiar
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:38
especially for @madou's tooltip library this would be helpful
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:39
Cool. Seems like a good candidate for investigation in the near future.
Btw I am contemplating doing a massive GitHub tidying pass on the open issues
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:40
:+1:
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:40
Is the issue with the requiered_access field in v2/dailies also on the list for the near future? aka. #574 ?
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:40
i did one a while ago to go over the outdated forum links, @lye closed a few solved/outdated issues already based on that
lemme see if i can find the list with the horrible gitter search

:point_up: 22 december 2017 17:16

omg i don't know how i found this, gitter search is even more horrible than before

Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:43
@CuriousCharr Yes, it's on our radar. Still needs to be diagnosed but shouldn't be too much of a headache to fix
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:43
Yay :)
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:43
anyhow, that list was more focused on adding forum references, but there's a few issues in there that might be outdated and can be closed
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:48
I need to just sit down and come up with a plan for getting this organized better.
Or really, just do the work :-)
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:49
idea: after you've come up with an approach that everyone can follow, promote a few of the people here to help you sort them :smile:
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:50
I personally would like that, but since the repo is owned by the ArenaNet organization and not me, I honestly don't know if we can :-/
Tbh I use GH mostly for stuff I completely control so I have no idea how good the delegation tools are
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:53
hrmm
you mean the possibility regarding the the github tools, or the fact that the repo is representing anet?
regarding the first, there's the collaborators section in the repo settings, at least for personal repos, not sure how it is in organization repos
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:56
Because of #83 (on the "Possibly outdated issues" list above) btw. I think it might certainly be usefull at one Point. I tought about it as maybe a way to be able to tell People witch permissions they'd need to see (more) things on e.g. certain Pages of Applications. Only thing is that it might be do better under v2.json.
Medyro
@Medyro
Mar 03 2018 22:57
I think it would be great to have a way to programatically tell witch endpoints require witch permisions either way.
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:57
i guess github has the tools for it then; it's just a matter of if anet wants outside people to be collaborators in the api repo
Mike Lewis
@apoch
Mar 03 2018 22:58
Oh cool, thanks for that link
I will do some research
Archomeda
@Archomeda
Mar 03 2018 22:58
@CuriousCharr yeah, i think it's better in the json file; when i created that issue, i was unaware that the json file existed
:+1: