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    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Thanks, let’s follow up there.
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Thanks for the help @gabrik. Now the two nodes work but there's some problem running linux os plugin on the raspberry pi
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Can you provide the output of journalctl -u fos_linux -f ?
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Running journalctl -u fos_linux.servicegives this
    Feb 24 16:00:33 raspberrypi systemd[1]: Started fos_linux.service.
    Feb 24 16:00:34 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: ARGS ['/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin', '/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin.json']
    Feb 24 16:00:34 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: [2020-02-24 16:00:34,889] - [INFO] > < init() > Hello from GNU\Linux Plugin
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: [2020-02-24 16:00:35,042] - [INFO] > < init() > Running on debian
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: [2020-02-24 16:00:35,043] - [INFO] > < init() > Package manger apt loaded!
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: Traceback (most recent call last):
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 1007, in <module>
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: 'uuid'), manifest)
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 84, in init
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: self.io_devices = self.get_io_devices()
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 742, in     get_io_devices
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: gpio_devices = [f for f in os.listdir(gpio_path) if f not in [
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi fos_linux[32510]: PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/sys/class/gpio'
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Service RestartSec=100ms expired, scheduling restart.
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 5.
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: Stopped fos_linux.service.
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
    Feb 24 16:00:35 raspberrypi systemd[1]: Failed to start fos_linux.service.
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik

    Ok this is because only root can access to gpio on the RPi.
    We can solve this by modifiying the systemd service file, /lib/systemd/system/fos_linux.service to use root instead of fos

    It will become something like this:

    [unit]
Description = Eclipse fog05 Linux Plugin
After=fos_agent.target


[Service]
Type=simple
PIDFile=/var/fos/os/os.pid
ExecStart = /etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin /etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin.json
KillMode=process
Restart=on-failure
User=root
StandardOutput=syslog
StandardError=syslog
SyslogIdentifier=fos_linux
[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target
Alias=linuxplugin.Service
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Nice, all nodes detected, thanks a lot
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    You are welcome!
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    By the way I think there's a typo here https://github.com/eclipse-fog05/plugin-fdu-native/blob/master/Makefile at line 22
    It's sudo cp /etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/fos_lxd.service /lib/systemd/system/
    But it gives error unless I edit it like sudo cp /etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/fos_native.service /lib/systemd/system/
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Yep you are right, good spot! Thanks we’ll fix this ASAP
    Because the file fos_lxd.service is not in the plugin-fdu-native directory. Thanks again for spotting this
    Daniele Moriggi
    @ilmoro90
    hi @ahmadadam96 can you explain how do you deploy a LXD container?
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96
    Hi @ilmoro90 , basically I used the fos_deploy.py file from here https://fog05.io/docs/getting-started/hello-world/ (with the fixes suggested in eclipse-fog05/website#7). I used the descriptor file from the bottom of this page https://fog05.io/docs/overview/. One extra thing I had to do was to run sudo lxd init on the node I want to run the container in. I used the default values for this, except for a question which asked if I wanted control over the internet for the containers, to which I answered yes.
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96

    Hi, as part of our project we are intending to implement a module for monitoring fog05 nodes and reporting the data back to an orchestrator. This data will include statistics like ping between all the different nodes, and network signal strength (for our drone) and so on. We intend to include this monitoring module on every fog05 node that we use and report the data back through the user API (to be obtained using a function similar to the api.node.info(x) function in the api).

    We were wondering what would be the best option for implementing this in a way that lines up with the architecture of fog05? Should it be implemented as a new fog05 plugin? Or added to an existing plugin?

    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik

    Hi @ahmadadam96 your monitoring can be implemented as part of the current linux plugin, indeed we where investigating the possibility to extended the OS plugins with plugins.

    This means that you can make your own version of the linux/whatever os plugin that is able to load plugin that can extend its functionalities, as some specific information may only be gathered by specific APIs.

    Some of the statistics you are looking for will be for sure be gethered by the default plugin for the next development iteration. So for the time being you can extend the linux-plugin to get the information you need.
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96
    Hi @gabrik , thanks for your reply! As for extending the linux plugin, I take it that would require the yaks_connector and the interfaces/OSplugin.py to be updated in addition to the plugin. Are there other files that would have to be updated as well?
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    I guess most of those information can be included in the current monitoring we get from the nodes, if you take a look at https://github.com/eclipse-fog05/plugin-os-linux/blob/master/linux_plugin#L183 that is the function used to get some very basic monitoring from the node, it exports a json to YAKS so I guess it can be extended as much as you need
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Hi @gabrik, I think I've found a bug in the yaks_connector: I plugged in my desktop a NTFS HDD using SATA and most of the plugins won't start
    feb 27 15:28:20 marco systemd[1]: Started fos_native.service.
feb 27 15:28:20 marco native_plugin[9203]: ARGS ['/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/native_plugin', '/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/native_plugin.json']
feb 27 15:28:20 marco native_plugin[9203]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,975] - [INFO] > < __init__() >  Hello from Native Plugin - Running on linux
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: Traceback (most recent call last):
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/native_plugin", line 541, in <module>
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:     na.start_runtime()
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/native_plugin", line 65, in start_runtime
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:     if self.os.dir_exists(self.BASE_DIR):
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/interfaces/Plugin.py", line 77, in dir_exists
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/interfaces/Plugin.py", line 58, in call_os_plugin_function
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/yaks_connector.py", line 1614, in exec_os_eval
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: ValueError: Empty data on exec_os_eval
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: Error in sys.excepthook:
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: Traceback (most recent call last):
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/apport_python_hook.py", line 145, in apport_excepthook
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:     os.O_WRONLY | os.O_CREAT | os.O_EXCL, 0o640), 'wb') as f:
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/crash/_etc_fos_plugins_plugin-fdu-native_native_plugin.999.crash'
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: Original exception was:
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: Traceback (most recent call last):
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/native_plugin", line 541, in <module>
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:     na.start_runtime()
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-native/native_plugin", line 65, in start_runtime
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:     if self.os.dir_exists(self.BASE_DIR):
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/interfaces/Plugin.py", line 77, in dir_exists
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/interfaces/Plugin.py", line 58, in call_os_plugin_function
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/yaks_connector.py", line 1614, in exec_os_eval
feb 27 15:28:21 marco native_plugin[9203]: ValueError: Empty data on exec_os_eval
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_native.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_native.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_native.service: Service hold-off time over, scheduling restart.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_native.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 5.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: Stopped fos_native.service.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_native.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_native.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: Failed to start fos_native.service.
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Hi @marcogozzi, thanks for reporting this, can you share also the output of the linux_plugin?
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96
    Thanks @gabrik , I'll take a look at the monitoring function
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Sure, it's a bit long so I'm splitting it
    feb 27 15:28:20 marco systemd[1]: Started fos_linux.service.
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: ARGS ['/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin', '/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin.json']
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,896] - [INFO] > < __init__() >  Hello from GNU\Linux Plugin
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,932] - [INFO] > < __init__() >  Running on ubuntu
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,932] - [INFO] > < __init__() >  Package manger apt loaded!
feb 27 15:28:20 marco sudo[9265]:      fos : TTY=unknown ; PWD=/ ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/scripts/default_gw.sh
feb 27 15:28:20 marco sudo[9265]: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by (uid=0)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco sudo[9265]: pam_unix(sudo:session): session closed for user root
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,938] - [INFO] > < get_intf_type() > OS Plugin Interface lo is of type loopback
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,938] - [INFO] > < get_intf_type() > OS Plugin Interface enp34s0 is of type ethernet
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: [2020-02-27 15:28:20,938] - [INFO] > < __init__() > [ INIT ] Populating Global Actual Store with data from OS Plugin
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: Traceback (most recent call last):
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 1007, in <module>
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     'uuid'), manifest)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 98, in __init__
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     self.__populate_node_information()
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 176, in __populate_node_information
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     node_info.update({'disks': self.get_disks_information()})
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 657, in get_disks_information
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     mount)[0] / 1024 / 1024 / 1024  # conversion to gb
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/psutil/__init__.py", line 1967, in disk_usage
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     return _psplatform.disk_usage(path)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/psutil/_psposix.py", line 127, in disk_usage
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     st = os.statvfs(path)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/media/marco/RED'
    feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: Error in sys.excepthook:
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: Traceback (most recent call last):
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/apport_python_hook.py", line 145, in apport_excepthook
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     os.O_WRONLY | os.O_CREAT | os.O_EXCL, 0o640), 'wb') as f:
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/crash/_etc_fos_plugins_plugin-os-linux_linux_plugin.999.crash'
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: Original exception was:
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: Traceback (most recent call last):
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 1007, in <module>
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     'uuid'), manifest)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 98, in __init__
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     self.__populate_node_information()
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 176, in __populate_node_information
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     node_info.update({'disks': self.get_disks_information()})
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/etc/fos/plugins/plugin-os-linux/linux_plugin", line 657, in get_disks_information
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     mount)[0] / 1024 / 1024 / 1024  # conversion to gb
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/psutil/__init__.py", line 1967, in disk_usage
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     return _psplatform.disk_usage(path)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/psutil/_psposix.py", line 127, in disk_usage
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]:     st = os.statvfs(path)
feb 27 15:28:20 marco fos_linux[9202]: PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/media/marco/RED'
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Service hold-off time over, scheduling restart.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 5.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: Stopped fos_linux.service.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: fos_linux.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
feb 27 15:28:21 marco systemd[1]: Failed to start fos_linux.service.
    The agent service is the only one Active
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik

    Thanks @marcogozzi

    The error is coming from a permission issue on the NTFS drive, I think that the user fos (the one used by fog05 services) is not able to get access to that and so when trying to get information about the system it crashes, leading to a not homogenous state and the other plugins crashes because of the missing of the OS one.

    Indeed it is a bug in Linux Plugin, a try…except block has to go there in order to deal with such permission issues
    Do you mind opening a bug to the plugin-os-linux repository?
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    I omitted the lines before that one as they are the same, as systemd tries 5 times before giving up
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    I got the first part way after the second one, I guess I have some connectivity issue, btw, the bug itself is identified and should be not complicated to be solved
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    I've opened a bug report, I posted the whole log there
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Perfect thank you @marcogozzi!
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Hi @gabrik, I've found a typo in the latest containerd plugin regarding the systemd service: the Makefile creates the directory /etc/fos/plugins/containerd/but fos_ctd.service tries to launch /etc/fos/plugins/plugin-fdu-containerd/containerd_plugin
    Do you want me to open an issue on github?
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Hi @marcogozzi indeed, feel free to open the issue, I’ll work on that once I solve the migration problem
    Btw, that plugin is still experimental, we may need to ship the right version of containerd with the plugin, as docker/k8s does
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Hi @ahmadadam96 I want just to update you about the migration, we solved some bug, but seems that we are blocked by a change in the LXD api that makes our code no more working when connecting to a remote LXD server. We opened an issue to pylxd and we are waiting some information. We think that once that is solved the fix on the migration can be merged.
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Hi @ahmadadam96 the fix was merged
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    Hi @gabrik, one question: as a task of my project for UniBo's professor Bellavista I'm trying to get the Docker containerd plugin to work but if I understand correctly, as of now, it's not completely implemented right (I get a "error:11,FException: PluginNotFound" exception when trying)? Is there anything I can do?
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96
    Hi @gabrik thanks a lot for your work!
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96

    Hi @gabrik. I've been trying to add data to this function using status.update, https://github.com/eclipse-fog05/plugin-os-linux/blob/master/linux_plugin#L183 however the output of api.node.status() did not reflect the newly added information (the same output before making changes was printed).

    I then tried to simply change the name of one of the keys for the dicts that are already included (such as changing disk to disks) and I got this error:

     Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05/fimapi.py", line 206, in status
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/fog05_sdk-0.1.0-py3.6.egg/fog05_sdk/yaks_connector.py", line 466, in get_node_status
ValueError: Empty message list on get_node_status`

    After this, I assumed that the keys for status are defined somewhere else making any changes not reflect in the output of api.node.status(). However I was unable to find any reference to them. I was wondering if you know if that's the case and if so, where those definitions are.

    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi
    @ahmadadam96 as far as I've understood how fog05 works, that function just polls the information from the OS then stores that information on the yaks/zenoh store
    So if you want to modify the node's status you have to write that new information to the key/value store using some connector (e.g. by using the Yaks_connector object https://github.com/eclipse-fog05/sdk-python/blob/master/fog05_sdk/yaks_connector.py)
    Marco Gozzi
    @marcogozzi

    Having the fod05 python sdk installed, you can get the connector executing this python code

    from fog05_sdk import Yaks_Connector
connector = Yaks_Connector(yaks_node_ip)

    Then take a look at yaks_connector.py file, there are some functions that let you handle the status (e.g. get_node_status and add_node_status)
    It may be that the status is unique per node, i.e. updating deletes the previous entry: if that's the case, retrieve the status, add what you want then update it

    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96
    Hi @marcogozzi . Thanks a lot for your feedback! Your solution made me check where add_node_status is deployed. It seems that in the linux OS plugin, only the local connector gets updated, whereas the global connector is updated by the fog_agent. So that may be why I don't see the status get updated.
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Hi @marcogozzi, in oder to use the containerd plugin you need also to download containerd from their repo, in particular this version https://github.com/containerd/containerd/releases/tag/v1.2.3, then you can use the containerd plugin
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik

    @ahmadadam96 indeed the global status is updated by the agent, I just checked and yes it verifies the fields in the json before publising it, so it cuts all the one that are not defined in https://github.com/eclipse-fog05/sdk-ocaml/blob/master/fos-sdk/fos_types.atd#L309

    If you have already the structure of the information feel free to open an issue so we can discuss there.

    I guess all this cannot be added to the current release (0.1) that we are going to release in 2 weeks, but it can be added to the upstream so you can use it.
    Ahmed El Yaacoub
    @ahmadadam96
    Hi @gabrik . After modifying the fos_types.atd file I was able to successfully get the new information! Thanks a lot! At the moment we are still testing our implementation and figuring out which information will be needed but we will keep you updated!
    Gabriele Baldoni
    @gabrik
    Hi @ahmadadam96 glad that my hint was useful, please let us know if you have any other issue/suggestion!