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Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
except multiple engines allow safe experimentation. lots of things start in one engine and get adopted by others or die. that's a good thing.
if there had to be agreement just to try....innovation doa
innovation is a messy business. if everyone would just think like me, sure, it would go smoothly and we'd cut out all this "waste".....but then we're limited to my ideas.
Chris Beckett
@chrismbeckett
In reality, Google adds innovation to browsers, and then Apple and Microsoft drag their feet for as long as possible before they actually support it.
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
where "my" == "consortium group think".
Eric J. Smith
@ejsmith
When there is no competition there is no pressure to innovate and the committee just argues with itself for years
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
@chrismbeckett not actually true
MS for instance just added async/await to their browser
Which no other browser has
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
@chrismbeckett that's a great point. let's stipulate to it's veracity. would you rather have google arguing with microsoft and apple in committee or putting out features in a browser?
Eric J. Smith
@ejsmith
The JS committee didn't get their heads out of their asses until Dart threatened them.
Chris Beckett
@chrismbeckett
No, when there is no profit to be derived or protected from competition, innovation dies. If there is no profit, there is no motivation for innovation at all by the big tech companies.
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
There are several APIs that are used in browsers today that's sprung out of IE
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
i'd rather have the option of telling my users to use chrome then wait until google's lawyers finish arguing with apple's lawyers over the verbiage of a spec.
@Alxandr like say, XHR.
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
yes
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
a small thing ;-)
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
but more recent things too
Roland Quast
@rquast
think about it... if we only had one browser engine.. we wouldn't have had jquery!
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
though im drng a blank
*drawing
Chris Beckett
@chrismbeckett
@rquast Right, we would not have needed it... LOL
Roland Quast
@rquast
:D
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
@rquast the world would be a better place if jQuery just realized it's time to die has long since passed -.-
Roland Quast
@rquast
but yeah.. a necessary evil
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
instead of 1 engine, i'd rather corporate IT get out of the way and upgrade browsers.
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
@kijanawoodard that's changing I think
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
did a project a couple years ago for Japanese market. 0_o INCREDIBLY backwards
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
For instance, newer windows doesn't allow you to not update browsers
Chris Beckett
@chrismbeckett
@Alxandr That is my point, I think the evolution of multiple browser engines and the competition it sparked got us to where we are today, but moving forward I think it's time has passed. What was once a driver of innovation has become a hindrance. It's just my opinion. I respect what all of you are saying.
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
We just need to wait til we can flush away win < 8
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
@chrismbeckett I think you're arguing we've topped out on the innovation curve for the browser engine and it can now be safely treated like a utility....i don't think we're there yet.
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
@chrismbeckett I'm just fairly convinced that if you gave all of the engine power to one coorporation they'd be all like "well, we won. Time to sack 90% of our ppl and live out our lives doing nothing on the huge profit we got"
Cause there is no need to do anything anymore
Chris Beckett
@chrismbeckett
The only innovation that Microsoft is adding to IE anymore is to make it integrate with Cortana, and Office 365 and Bing. All of it is related to locking in users to their cloud services. They don't give a damn about enabled application developers to build HTML5 applications.
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
People don't have an alternative to go to if you do a bad job
Roland Quast
@rquast
hang on
web assembly
Kijana Woodard
@kijanawoodard
for 1, i think this "js as assembly language of the web" is temporary
Roland Quast
@rquast
end of story
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
@rquast ???
Michael Prescott
@michaelprescott
Cost is a factor, even for browser upgrades. The rationale at least in our markets goes like this. "Upgrade browser? That means upgrade OS, upgrade OS? That means upgrade computers. Can you make your product work on IE8?"
Roland Quast
@rquast
well once that's around, wouldn't that deal with paints and layout etc?
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
@michaelprescott Sure, but there comes a time when they want TheNewShinySoftware that only works on windows newest, where they are forced to upgrade
@rquast No. It's just javascript
WebAssembly is a subset of javascript
In binary AST form
Roland Quast
@rquast
ahh really? oh bummer
Aleksander Heintz
@Alxandr
(meaning parse-time is effectively nil)
Chris Beckett
@chrismbeckett
Google seems to be the only company that innovates for the open web because the open web of content is their business model. Apple and Microsoft prefer closed eco-systems of apps built with their native technologies. They are both going to continue to drag their feet on any real innovations that don't support their business models.