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James Elliott
@brunchboy
Also, I don’t think port forwarding works for broadcast packets, but I might be wrong. You’d have to do a lot of experimentation, and figuring out all the ports would be difficult and fragile. And the latency issues would not be good for the DJ Link protocol.
But hello and welcome @Bronxmonkey! Nothing is stupid, this is all a bunch of people trying things out and seeing what we can get to work. :smile:
Bronxmonkey
@Bronxmonkey
Thanks @brunchboy, useful information. My end goal for this would be to somehow connect a remote player into the local pro-link network. Can you conceive of a way to make this possible?
James Elliott
@brunchboy
I think the only way to do that would be to fully bridge the networks so you have one LAN tunneled over a WAN. But I would be surprised if the results were satisfactory. The protocols are not designed to be robust against that kind of latency. Even a WiFi segment makes things awful.
James Elliott
@brunchboy
A “fast network” can give you throughout but can’t help with latency at all. The speed of light is what it is.
Bronxmonkey
@Bronxmonkey
Yeah i realise the latency could be an issue, but for what i want to achieve that wouldn't be an issue; i just need all the players to share the same master clock, they wouldnt need to be beat synced.
So i already have a LAN tunneled over the WAN, do you think i would need to forward any ports or in theory should it just connect?
James Elliott
@brunchboy
If you actually have tunneled a LAN successfully that is all you need; the devices on both sides will be using the same IP address range and net mask, and will be able to see and communicate with each other at Layer 2, just as if they were connected to the same switch. Port forwarding as a concept is not helpful here and cannot work; due to the nature of the protocol, devices need to be able to communicate with each other via individual IP address in a stateless (UDP) manner.
But if all you want is to share tempo changes I would suggest a radically simpler approach: Use Beat Link Trigger on both ends to connect to Ableton Link, and just forward the Link packets in both directions. That is just one protocol to worry about, and it is more modern and designed to be more robust to network complexities.
And you could even avoid using Link, and just use BLT at both ends and your own hand-rolled TCP protocol (like Carabiner uses) to communicate tempo changes.
Tyler Johnston
@Blobe_gitlab
Hello! im trying to set up some triggers for cues set on tracks in a show ive created, i have midi sending to trigger a strobe at the start of a CUE and am trying to figure out how to send the same midi at the end of the selected cue are to stop the strobe without creating a second cue. i cant seem to figure out what code i have to put in the edit exited expression
Tyler Johnston
@Blobe_gitlab
start end.PNG
basically i can use the built in start to send midi note 20 when the cue comes by but id also like to know what code to put in so i can resend midi note 20 when that 4 bars is done :)
James Elliott
@brunchboy
Hello, @Blobe_gitlab! That should be easy enough for me to demonstrate, I will try to share something after work today.
Tyler Johnston
@Blobe_gitlab
@brunchboy that would be amazing! i dont have any coding experience so would love some help with it :)
James Elliott
@brunchboy
So the default MIDI set up sends a MIDI note ON message at the start of the cue, and a MIDI note OFF message at the end of it. It sounds like whatever system you are working with can’t respond to the note OFF message, so you want to re-send a note ON message. And you’re right, we need to switch to a custom (code) message for that.
James Elliott
@brunchboy
So you want to set your Started On-Beat message to Custom. You can configure the note and channel you want to use in the menus, because our code will be written to use those values.
As soon as you make that setting, BLT will open an expression editor for the Started On-Beat expression (unless you already have tried putting something in there; in that case you can open it by choosing it in the context or gear menu). Here is the expression you want to use:
(when midi-output
  (midi/midi-note-on midi-output started-on-beat-note 127 (dec started-on-beat-channel)))
That is basically the same as the second example described in the Activation Expression section of the user guide, except modified for the values that are available to cue expressions. https://blt-guide.deepsymmetry.org/beat-link-trigger/expressions#activation-expression
You will then want to also paste the same code into the cue’s Ended expression (context or gear menu > Edit Ended Expression).
That worked for me when I tested it just now. If you need a bunch of cues like that, you can add it to your cue library, and then create new ones based on that template, just picking different values for the note as needed. https://blt-guide.deepsymmetry.org/beat-link-trigger/shows#cue-library
Let me know if that works for you, @Blobe_gitlab!
Tyler Johnston
@Blobe_gitlab
:) thank you so much going to try it soon
Tyler Johnston
@Blobe_gitlab
It works great!!!
James Elliott
@brunchboy
Sweet, thanks for letting me know. I should add that to the wiki, I’m sure you won’t be the last person to ask about it.
Kevinnns
@Kevinnns

@Bronxmonkey I don't fully get what you're doing but please be aware (for the DJ's their sake) that these things can create an instable DJ network, thus players skipping/emergency loops/not detecting each other and what not.

It already gets more interesting when you have more switches connected to that same network, let alone Site-to-site VPN's.

I am however curious if you can get it to work and what you're exactly trying and what you mean with a remote player in this case. :D

James Elliott
@brunchboy
Yeah, that’s why I’m trying to encourage the idea of just running BLT at both ends, and sending Ableton Link over the WAN.
James Elliott
@brunchboy
Finally! Gitter has added support for threaded discussions, and I have enabled it in this room. If you want to organize a topic under a thread, use the “…” menu at the top right of a message to choose “Start a thread”.
Evan Purkhiser
@EvanPurkhiser
whew, hey friends
it's been a while since I've been here :)
I'm sure sure sure, this has been talked about, I've been away from keeping up with pioneer news for a while
but I noticed this is a thing
also that all their new stuff seems to be using the "showlink" protocal from TC net
which I wouldn't doubt is some jazzed up version of the original protocal
Curious what we all know about it :-)
Also the new docs are looking GREAT @brunchboy
Evan Purkhiser
@EvanPurkhiser
o boy, reading back so much has happened
James Elliott
@brunchboy
That protocol is something I got threatened with lawsuits when I speculated about looking at, and only works with newer hardware I believe.
Thanks, @EvanPurkhiser and yes are right, tons going on even though I keep thinking we might run out of things to improve! :smile:
Andrea Colla
@AndColla
@brunchboy do you think that the newer protocol sends more informations about the timing, so it's easier to output a timcoded signal?
James Elliott
@brunchboy
I have no idea or opinion about that.
I would certainly hope so! But my understanding is that to use the new protocol requires purchasing an expensive license.
Evan Purkhiser
@EvanPurkhiser
Yeah the prices are insane
Evan Purkhiser
@EvanPurkhiser
also considering rewriting my stuff from go into typescript. I've been using that language a lot at work and really really enjoy it
mostly just for fun, and hopefully to be able to iterate quicker on things
James Elliott
@brunchboy
I enjoy Typescript as well. If you do that I might even be persuaded to pitch in. :)
James Elliott
@brunchboy
Also, I think Kaitai Struct’s Typescript support is almost ready.
(Which would allow you to use Crate Digger’s structure definitions to read exported database files and track waveform/beat grid/cue list data.)