These are chat archives for cherrypy/cherrypy

4th
May 2016
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 17:46
Hi guys!
do you have any objections against putting gitter/travis buttons into README.md?
as of me, it's a good idea to have those :)
Joseph S. Tate
@josephtate
May 04 2016 17:47
+1
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 17:52

The reason I didn't merge the gitter PR:s was because I don’t want people to go here by default, but to first see what are the other options.
That was just by my own experience from elsewhere, I rather wan’t people to find the docs and stuff first, read the intro and so on.
But I might be overreacting on that, I am not bikeshedding on that, if you all think it should be there.

WRT travis, sure, by all means, that would be great.

Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 17:55
well, gitter-chats are usually meant to be a place where people come and ask/share about solving their problems if they couldn't address them by just reading though docs. but there has to be some way they could reach this chat
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 18:00

Yes, but I want to introduce them to the project in the right way first.
And I do not totally agree, as the gitter chat is a chat. So it doesn’t scale well. For very small projects it works, yes, but when many people talk about different issues it becomes a cacophony of stuff in the end.
(that is why I emphasize discussion in the "help-guide")
I my view, most questions should become issues. That way, they are also easy to convert into a bug or whatever , and also the question and answer becomes a resource for others.

But there is a link to here chat in the main readme?
https://github.com/cherrypy/cherrypy#i-want-to-discuss-cherrypy-reach-out-to-developers-or-cherrypy-users

Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 18:14
oh, I see.. I agree that issues should be filed as issues. Still live conversations don't seem to be a problem at gitter. It's just a chat. I think the button should be visually well-recognizable
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 18:15
Yeah, but what is actually dominating most gitter rooms are issues.
And not only that, it is often the “I can’t be bothered to read the docs”-questions that end up there, because they feel it is not enought of a question to start a new issue. '
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 18:22
Okay, I won't be arguing about that:)
Another suggestion: it would be nice to enable some github integrations to get notified about some activity in repo.
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 18:23

When it's discussions and people reaching out, it works great.
But again, it is not a big thing for me, if we want to we can.

Personally, I don’t think that we need to worry about people finding the gitter channel, if they bother to read just a little of that short readme we have, it will be obvious for them were to turn.
And if they can't be bothered to even do that..that is exactly the people I rather don’t have here “discussing". :-)

Github integration, sure, what are you thinking of?
Wholy sh*t my speling and grammar is off tonight.
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 18:53
nevermind, my English isn't as good as I'd like it to be too )
I vote for a badge in place of a plain link to gain some attention of people not knowing what gitter is
it's been difficult for me to really reach anyone from cherrypy core when it's been hosted at bitbucket. and I still feel like fixing that :)
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 18:56
Sure, I’d agree to that. Just as long it isn’t the first thing people see. On the other hand, what would they gain by just clicking that?
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 18:56
they'd see smth active and live
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 18:57
(WRT reach, I know, I would say that we are trying to open up the governance right now, and the move to github)
Yes, that is a point.
But I am sort of more like who just looks at the gitter room for that?
By having a proper and helpful readme like we do, they also see structure and order.
I think having a lot of unanswered and open issues is far worse.
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:01
That's a good point
btw, current README isn't ideal for a github project
there's possibility of specifying contribution rules and templates as separate files
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:04

Don’t you think? I have actually made that after experiences I have have from my own github projects from another project angular-schema-form.
We are changing to this format there as well.

That is true, and I have created an issue for that as well:
cherrypy/cherrypy#1424

Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:04
I mean, github looks up for CONTRIBUTING.md file and .github folder to link those and pre-fill templates
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:04
I know, but we haven’t had time to write those yet.
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:04
I see..
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:05
Because the current contribute.txt is not really how at least I would make a contribute.md.
We have just moved, after all. Also scheduling issues made us move the repo before we had an opportunity to fix all these things.
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:08
I'm not judging you. I just share my thoughts
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:08
I didn’t take it like that, no worries. I am just explaining the current situation.
(WRT to gitter, for example right now, and the last while, my angular-schema-form-gitter notifications has been constantly lit by basic questions.
Questions that have been asked over and over again and would have been great as proper, searchable issues.)
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:14
placing FAQ in README is a great idea. I was talking about contribution guidelines misplaced
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:15

I was too, just mentioned this because the constant notifications annoyed me.

I am saying that you don’t need a FAQ if you have questions in issues.

Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:16

Github integration, sure, what are you thinking of?

New PRs, issues, successful tests

Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:18
Isn't that something one sets by oneself? Or are you saying that we should get that stuff in here?
You'd need to convince me why we should add even more notification sources to this room than our jibber jabber.. :-)
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:21
I'm not aware of jabber :)
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:22

:-)

That is more something I'd add to some cherrypy/develop-room if that were to happen.

Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:23
yeah, that's a good idea
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:29
And one feature that is good for the FAQitude of issues, is that one can edit the heading and questions afterwards so they become more usable in that regard, I often do that.
Hm. I seem completely illiterate today.
Joseph S. Tate
@josephtate
May 04 2016 19:39
There's an activity panel on the right side, doesn't that cover the integration?
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:45
it does if the integration is enabled
oh
it was collapsed because of a small window and I thought it's disabled
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:51
Oh, you were talking about the default integration? I thought you were talking about the Travis integration, because I think that posts to gitter, like slack-integrations do..
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:51
nope
those integrations work the same way: they are not posted as normal messages
for that you'll need some third-party bot posting them
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:53
Aha, well then by all means we can add them. I don’t mind them. I clicked the travis integration and it seemed like that to me.
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 19:53
:+1:
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 19:54
So I am not sure if the codes are security-sensitive stuff or something, I will post about this in planning from now on.
Nicklas Börjesson
@nicklasb
May 04 2016 20:16
I am for real hesitating to add the Travis build status as it just displays build failed because of the seemingly random failures of the tests.
Sviatoslav Sydorenko
@webknjaz
May 04 2016 22:17
another hint: there's this service called waffle.io helping to organize github tasks with kanban boards
did you consider using it or smth similar?