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Baris Balic
@barisbalic
Hey @fanaugen, I would suggest, as a general rule of thumb that you avoid posting links to commercial products unless someone asks. There's no specified policy about it here, but some discussions (much like IRC channels) will have a policy against it.
Baris Balic
@barisbalic
Also #offtopic-discussions would be better for non-tutorial talk. Not that it's particularly busy in here at the moment.
Despo Pentara
@despo
I agree with @barisbalic even though I know @fanaugen meant well. The course sounds great for the more advanced students and it would be a good opportunity fot them to collaborate with a coach who is spending more time understanding Rails.
Alexander Jahraus
@fanaugen
Sorry, I meant to post it to #offtopic-discussions
Andrew McDonough
@andrewmcdonough
It's a 'no' from Sublime on free licences:

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your email.

We do not offer free licenses of any kind; however part of the reason we offer a free unlimited trial is so students like yours can learn on Sublime Text without the burden of paying for it.

Version 3 is now available to trial too: www.sublimetext.com/3

Cheers

Sales Team
Sublime HQ PTY LTD

Should we be recommending an alternative that is more 'free'? Or just putting up with the nagware?
Despo Pentara
@despo
@andrewmcdonough I don't use any of these editors but how about textmate or atom? Besides the Windows support is sublime that much better?
Alexander Jahraus
@fanaugen
Atom is free, but currently Mac-only. Sublime is cross-platform, but not free (and neither is TextMate). I think it makes sense to recommend free code editors as alternatives to Sublime. On Windows there’s Notepad++, on Macs there’s TextWrangler. For pure HTML/CSS there’s also Adobe Brackets, which has some unique features that are great for learning CSS.
Baris Balic
@barisbalic
Redcar was becoming useable last time I tried it and that was a awhile back so may be good by now? Also I'm loathed to say it but JetBrains gave us some free licences previously for another charity project
Andrew McDonough
@andrewmcdonough
I tried Redcar out a while ago, and it was great, but flakey in a few parts. Its website says fairly clearly "Redcar is not finished", then the last commit was over a year ago. If it's been abandoned, maybe it's not the best thing to recommend to beginners. Jetbrains Webstorm is a little heavy IMHO in both features, and also download size (127Mb), which could prove problematic in some of the venues. Notepad++ on the other hand appears to be 7.7Mb. I'd also be a fan of recommending stuff that's actually free, so maybe we should go with Notepad++ for Windows users and Atom for Mac?
Jon Kelly
@jkbits1
Very much IMHO on Windows editors - Notepad++ seems a good editor for students to begin with - it has decent syntax highlighting and to me has a "friendly" feel, as well as being very configurable. Webstorm might be helpful for some intermediate and above students. It's also very configurable, so to some extent it can be used like sublime if people want that (although I use it myself in a ide-style). The code-completion and JS-hint/lint features can be handy. (jkbits1 === Jon Kelly)
Alexander Jahraus
@fanaugen
Brand new beginner-level article by Chris Coyier showing examples of how Web languages fit together: http://css-tricks.com/web-technologies-hanging-together/
Dan Hassan
@dan-mi-sun
from my experience you become proficient in whatever we spend our time in :) to a degree it also depends on what the trainer is able to help with… small productivity tips can be an enjoyable and fun thing to learn, so you’ll miss out on that aspect if we’re recommending editors we don’t know how to use ourselves….
I’ve be leanring this recently in an ‘immersive course’ - I’m on vim and everyone else is on sublime… the trainer knows many sublime shortcuts which look great but knows nothing about vim… I’m lucky to have friends who use vim who say ‘hey! have you seen this?'
Despo Pentara
@despo
Hey guys, I would like to merge this in before the workshop today. Can you have a look and see if you have any feedback please codebar/tutorials#94
Brendan
@b-murphy
Sublime text edit, has a one person/organisation per licence, not per device, would it be bad to say that one could be shared for codebar students ?
Alexander Jahraus
@fanaugen
@thealmightyis I’d say that would violate their SLA, since "the codebar students" are by no standards an organisation, they are clearly individuals.
Ollie Silviotti
@ollie101

I made a couple of minor comments on the lessons @despo - nothing major, looks good to me.

Re:editors - I don't think there's really a need to move away from using Sublime unless people find the pop-up that annoying, especially if they're happy for students to use it indefinitely. Notepad++ and Atom are good alternatives if not though.

Jon Kelly
@jkbits1
@despo - I looked at the first changed file, and there are some really good changes in there, both from a technical and from a teaching perspective. Only one small comment from me. I'll look at the second file later.
Baris Balic
@barisbalic
Alex Pounds
@creature
Hi! I had a great time coaching last night. I can't make it next week but I'll be along for the event the week after. :)
Despo Pentara
@despo
@creature thanks for helping out!
Despo Pentara
@despo
Hey guys you can switch to the new gitter by changing to 'next' at http://next.gitter.im - visually it should have a next button in the middle of the top bar
Andrew McDonough
@andrewmcdonough
Re: editors, Atom is now available on Windows: https://atom.io/faq
Baris Balic
@barisbalic
Oh that could be pretty handy for attendees
Does it have the react patch? That shit must be like gold.
Alexander Jahraus
@fanaugen
Another editor I found exceptionally useful in teaching HTML & CSS is Adobe’s Brackets (http://brackets.io). It has a built-in one-click live preview (which opens a Chrome instance), so you have source code and rendered HTML side-by-side, the latter updates as you type, highlighting the element you just modified. Mac OS X only

Also I personally can’t take wasting so much time on typing (rather, watching the student type) angle brackets and closing </tags>, so I always recommend installing the Emmet plugin/extension available for Atom, Sublime, and Brackets: Type img[tab] and it expands to <img src="" alt="" />, placing your cursor inside the quotes after src.

Oh, by the way, just found out that Brackets has a Windows version, too

Mario Gintili
@mariogintili
How about using http://jsfiddle.net/ ? you have everything in one place and it's in the browser
Alexander Jahraus
@fanaugen
@mariogintili I know, I’m also introducing students to http://jsbin.com, but when all the required software is on your own machine (and works offline) it just psychologically feels more like coding imho.
Baris Balic
@barisbalic
Maybe get everyone onto vim
or emacs
Mario Gintili
@mariogintili
@fanaugen I see your point :) but maybe providing a painless setup in the beginning provides a better experience?
Despo Pentara
@despo
Is brackets better than atom? Also I agree with @fanaugen. We are trying to help people learn programming, so I don't consider jsbin or jsfiddle an editor alternative and installing a text editor is not a complex task
@barisbalic ;) or not
Alex Pounds
@creature
I am a big fan of Vim, personally, but I'm 100% behind getting students to use Sublime. It's a nice editor with a large community following, and feels friendlier/more familiar to someone just starting out.
There's already a lot of complex stuff for students to take in; I'd much rather they focused on the coding part rather than learning a weird editor.
Despo Pentara
@despo
we asked sublime for licences but they were not up for giving us any so we eventually concluded in atom, because its open source and now has windows support too.
but we can pick up this discussion again in the next meeting, which will be on the 26th. I will send out the link to it later.
Alex Pounds
@creature
I don't have strong feelings in the Atom vs Sublime discussion. :) I just don't think that stuff like Vim and Emacs is the way to go. :)
Despo Pentara
@despo
@creature of course! We are teaching programming not typing or vim :P
so emacs and vim are a definitely no for suggesting to students.
*definite
Despo Pentara
@despo
Is anyone up for doing some private paid one-to-one sessions? There is a student who needs help but doesnt fit our target group and his focus is on understanding TDD and other concepts who are a lot more advanced that what we are focusing on.
Alex Pounds
@creature
Did he have a price & location in mind?
Despo Pentara
@despo
No, but can I get back to you on that?
Alex Pounds
@creature
Sure.
Baris Balic
@barisbalic
I think it's a hard sell on vim/emacs, but the positives are: available practically everywhere, including some random box your boss set up in 1991 in the corner of the office, emacs uses fairly common (unixy) bindings for lots of actions, both encourage typing practice and touch-typing which I believe to be reasonably important. But I do understand any hesitance
Despo Pentara
@despo
we have had some people trying to use vim when we first started, it really didnt work out well as all their mental effort was going into understanding vim.