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  • Feb 17 2019 09:46
    @5chdn banned @Aquentson_twitter
Huey Long
@hueylong4prez_twitter
How do I join these semi private cat herder meetings?
Also, what do y'all think about this idea that was posted in ETH Magicians Forum? https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/new-social-governance-layer-for-ethereum/4181?u=masher
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop

@hueylong4prez_twitter, that post is saying great stuff like:
“Right now, there is no formal governance process that quantitatively seeks community input on major protocol changes.”
“there was no “vote” taken for the community and respective stakeholders (miners, dapp developers, etc.) to truly voice in their opinions in way that is comprehensive.”
“application that became the main medium for community members to voice their opinions on major protocol changes?”

I’m also very interested in exactly this. We’re researching ways to do all this at Canonizer.com

So, sign me up.

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan

How do I join these semi private cat herder meetings?

These meetings are available as a recording here. But if you've anything specific to discuss, feel free to add it as a comment to the ethereum-cat-herders/PM#119 for next meeting.

Huey Long
@hueylong4prez_twitter

@poojaranjan thanks for the previous recordings!

I will definitely add comments, though I do wish there was a way for me to more actively participate or facilitate more involvement of the community

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Of course!
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
I don’t have a zoom link for today’s meeting.
And I added a (long) agenda item.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Thanks.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Thanks for you time this morning — and I did have Ben mixed up with someone else. And thinking more about polls today — I don’t put much trust in the results, but a poll asking directly about ASICs vs GPUs would be interesting, and might help get people thinking.
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
As discussed in the meeting today, ProgPOW resources are now available on the ECH website. Please note that this curated list is made available for community reference purposes only. ECH is neither pro nor against ProgPOW implementation. Feel free to participate in the ongoing discussion forums.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Thanks @poojaranjan. A appreciate the neutrality of the Cat Herders.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin

While using PoW, should the Ethereum network be secured primarily by GPU miners?

@auryn-macmillan and @greg_colvin have started a poll at
https://burnsignal.io/#/poll/0xe8d4b4368bc2256605565f82f7b579c7f2462cfc
Discussion is encouraged at
https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/while-using-pow-should-the-ethereum-network-be-secured-primarily-by-gpu-miners/4230

Paul Payam Almasi
@LucidMasi_twitter
Hey guys! We just launched this step by step guide for migrating Parity nodes to Geth - Hope its helpful! Let us know if you have any questions. https://twitter.com/AlchemyPlatform/status/1255555472934895616?s=20
CanonizerJim
@CanonizerJim

These polls are useful, but they only take a snapshot in time. Once the first vote is taken and each signature is signed, nothing can change. They aren’t useful if the consensus shifts after the poll is taken, as it invariably does.

That’s why we’ve designed a topic at Canonizer.com to measure and track consensus dynamically and in real time.

https://canonizer.com/topic/171-Importance-of-ASIC-Resistance/1#statement

This is a “liquid” wiki system, where everything can change and become whatever everyone wants it to be. We’d love to get ongoing feedback in the community.

The focus is on falsifiability, or negotiating what changes would be required to get everyone on board. This allows everyone to measure the results of arguments, evidence, and concessions (how many people do they convert) and so on, as the community progresses towards a consensus that gets everyone all they want.

Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Agreed on the general usefulness of polls. Auryn contacted me out of the blue with the mechanism ready to go, so I figured, why not? This particular snapshot in time is of interest, and we meant it as much to stimulate discussion as anything else.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
Right, discussion is good, but once you say something, you need to find out if it has converted anyone. Otherwise, you just get the same old arguments that convince no one, and just polarize people.
And if you want a snapshot in time, there is the "as of" setting on the side, to see how things have changed over time.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Yes. So far as the Canonizer topic, the intro seems problematic already. The consensus at those meetings wasn’t clear, and I disagree with Felix that the question is purely social — I’d argue that it’s primarily a security question with many other aspects. Even getting started on consensus is difficult.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
Yes, that is the point. That we just us clueless people taking a first stab. That's what a wiki system is. We need help to fix it. We'd love to get a rewrite by anyone willing to help.
Or a rename, anything can change.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
OK. I guess you need to get the link out where people will see it. I’d suggest trimming the Camp Statement down so that it asks the question with fewer presuppositions. I’d dive in, but just don’t have the time.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
OK, we'll do that. Is the "Importance of ASIC Resistance" name good, or is there a better name?
CanonizerJim
@CanonizerJim
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Looks good. Best of luck.
Auryn Macmillan
@auryn-macmillan
@CanonizerJim and @BrentAllsop, I'd actually argue that Burn Signal polls are not simply a snapshot in time. They have no resolution date and are continuously updated over time. With the change over time plotted andeasily interpretable.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin

What is consensus decision making?

Consensus decision making is a creative and dynamic way of reaching agreement between all members of a group. Instead of simply voting for an item and having the majority of the group getting their way, a group using consensus is committed to finding solutions that everyone actively supports, or at least can live with. This ensures that all opinions, ideas and concerns are taken into account. Through listening closely to each other, the group aims to come up with proposals that work for everyone.
...
In this guide you'll find lots of information to help you make decisions using consensus, including why you might use it, the basic principles and process, how to apply it to larger groups of people and ideas for dealing with common problems. We also have a short guide to consensus, and our guide Facilitating meetings contains lots of tips for making your consensus meetings run smoothly.

https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Read the latest blog by ECH listing Ethereum's projects and protocols participating at Coindesk's Consensus 2020
BruceTheGoose
@_BruceTheGoose__twitter

Hello everyone, I'm BruceTheGoose; I'm a cryptoartist, a freelance web designer, creative writer, and decentralization enthusiast. While I'm compartively new to the crypto space, I have far more interest in the democratization of the web, and the potential for creating a brighter future and advancing technology theough chain and smart contracts than I have in trading or HODL'ing as an investment. That said, I do believe cryptocurrencies are exponentially better than fiat, and I try to do my part little by little to spread awareness and adoption of decentralized currencies and organizations. I'm currently building an NFT platform that aims to focus on maximizing benefit to the creators over focusing on profit. If theres interest I can add a link. To get to my point, I would love to offer my skillset, my knowledge, and even a varieety of free or discounted educational / marketing resources to the Ethereum network, and projects/people working to shape the future for the greater good.

TLDR : I'm an NFT artist who thinks we should decentralize and tokenize all the things, and I'd like to do what I can to improve Ethereum as a cat herder

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Hi Bruce, Glad to know that you’re interested to contribute as a Cat Herder. Generally members of ECH meets once every two weeks to discuss progress and area of contribution to the Ethereum ecosystem. There is a GitHub repository where we create agenda. Feel free to add your proposal as a comment to the agenda and we can discuss this in the next meeting. Welcome to the ECH community!
BruceTheGoose
@_BruceTheGoose__twitter
Thank you, glad to be here~ ^.^ By my proposal do you mean my NFT platform? I'd happily discuss it, but that wasn't my motivation for wanting to be a cat herder, I'm just enthusiastic about everything Ethereum is laying the foundations for and such. Or if you meant my offer of sharing resources, that's less a proposal, and more of a sidenote lol. I have a ton of e-books, video courses, WP plugins, and more that with redistribution or rebranding rights that I'd happily make available for the betterment of Eth/web3 etc. :)
put simply, I didn't come to shill my crap, I came to hopefully contribute :)
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
By proposal, I meant anything you would like to discuss. ECH is a decentralized Ethereum community of volunteers. You’re welcome to share anything that you may have to offer or just to learn about opportunities to contribute.
If interested, you may join us in the next meeting proposed on May 12th.
Agenda will be floated 2-3 days before the meeting.
BruceTheGoose
@_BruceTheGoose__twitter
Ok thanks, I'll add it to my calendar. I'll likely put together a dropbox file or something with ebooks and such for anyone who wants them.
Edson Ayllon
@edsonayllon
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan

Next ECH Meeting: May 12, 2020, at 14:00 UTC

Agenda: ethereum-cat-herders/PM#121

URL: TBA

This is open for all community members and we encourage individuals to participate who are interested to contribute to the Ethereum ecosystem as a member of ECH. Feel free to add any topic related to process, upgrade, governance, or otherwise as a comment to the Agenda if you'd like to discuss it in the meeting.

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Reminder: ECH meeting is in next ~3.5hrs
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Meeting in ~40 mins. Join URL: https://zoom.us/j/327858260
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop

Very true piece about the futility of traditional polling.

Canonizer.com is not a polling system, it is a consensus building and tracking system. Nothing in that article applies to what is possible with Canonizer. Canonizer is a way to find out if everyone is “on the same page” And that page can constantly change (polls can’t do that), and anyone can start any apposing camp, describing what they want, before they get on board, with lots of dynamic negotiations, falsifiability and so on. Canonizer’ s hierarchical camp structure enables controversial issues (which fracture people apart, when you only have polls) can be pushed out of the way of consensus, to lower level supporting sub camps around what people do agree on (always more important than what people disagree on). You can track when and why people jump camps, and so on. You can’t do any of that with traditional poling systems. Polls can only crudely measure differences of opinion. With canonizer you can find out exactly what everyone wants, concisely and quantitatively. And that, by definition, is consensus.

Greg Colvin
@gcolvin

As we’ve discussed I see Canonizer as just one tool among many. A very promising tool that needs to see more practica luse and more research.

I think the paradigm cases for reaching consenus have long remained discourse, dialogue, deliberation, and decision-making. (The alliteration was unintentional, really.) Decision-making by rough consensus has long been the default — it’s hard to operate as a small band of hunter-gatherers when you aren’t in concensus about important decisions. Unanimous consensus is ideal, but the need for action means objections must sometimes be dismissed.

Consensus was reached face-to-face at first. Technology has provided new potential and new complexity ever since. Ethereum is an online community at the bleeding edge of complexity — but our communication tools are adequate if well deployed; the entire world has gone virtual in a few months time. So our troubles can't just be blamed or cured by tech, though our tech is not yet where it needs t one.

Our essential need is a better, better organized community. That takes more self-organization, along the lines of the Editors, the Magicians, and Core Devs. What are the other natural communities within our community? Who can and how can they catalyze their self-organization?

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
ECH newsletter 21 is published at Medium and shared at Twitter, LinkedIn, Reddit. Share, RT, upvote is appreciated.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
Nice. Done. It looks like you missed the link in the Reddit post. Someone asked about it, so I replied with the medium link.
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Oh thank you 🙏