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  • Feb 17 09:46
    @5chdn banned @Aquentson_twitter
James Hancock
@MadeofTin
In a way the ACD notes becomes the Log. As a champion would need to propose it into a call. But it isn't easy to track the information that way.
Seems to me like EIPs should have a State Log somehow/somewhere
But, it shouldn't be something editable by the Authors I don't think. If that can be managed
That would fulfill both of your suggestions
They should also take into account updating new EIPs. So if someone creates a new EIP that is an updated version it would inherit the log of the previous EIPs.
James Hancock
@MadeofTin
Thinking out loud a little bit here
But seems like two process emerging
James Hancock
@MadeofTin

One place that is the "Head" of the process that shows active work. People would go here to see the latest state of active EIPs.

A second being a complete Log of the history all Eips. People would go here to investigate the history of a single EIPs.

The latter would be a lot of information that I don't think should be included in the former. And it gives justification to have two different workflows.

imo
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan

Not specificaly Berlin, or for any targeted fork.

@MadeofTin So, to be clear, EIP 2070 is still the Meta to be followed for Berlin. However, it needs to be updated. Also, EIP 2378 is to be treated as a progressing list. If any of the EIP listed in 2378 gets included in any upgrade, "Pipeline status" will be updated and we will consider the rest of the EIPs for a subsequent upgrade.

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan

Certainly any EIP included in the Berlin meta would come from this list.

One more question, since EIP 2378 lists Core EIPs only; any Non-Core EIPs will never be seen here, even if they are actually being considered for an upgrade. eg, for EIPs for Berlin meta = EIPs from EIP 2378 + Non-core EIPs accepted by ACD. Is my assumption correct?

James Hancock
@MadeofTin
Yes Eip 2070 is the meta for Berlin. The status for what actually gets into Berlin is currently up for grabs.
2378 will be an active list and any EIPs that are included in a Fork or are marked as not Eligible will be removed.
James Hancock
@MadeofTin

any Non-Core EIPs will never be seen here, even if they are actually being considered for an upgrade.

Yes, they won't be seen here. This is only for EIPs that have to go through the EIP-centric Fork Model. Meta, Networking, etc... would not join this list. Other types of EIPs will eventually need their own systems and processes for adoption and approval

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
That helps, thank you @MadeofTin
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
I am not sure if creating and maintaining an EIP for the sake of maintaining a list is justified. Have you considered creating a file at EIP GitHub for maintaining this active list of EIPs? Maybe because an EIP is essentially a protocol for improvement in Ethereum, which is created to undergo an upgrade (unless it is overwritten by any other protocol or rejected). And by the description of 2378, it is never meant for consideration of any upgrade. I may be wrong, but IMO going by a file, would be easier to maintain and would avoid any confusion while being referred.
James Hancock
@MadeofTin

I am not sure I understand what you mean by using a File as opposed to an EIP. You mean something outside of the current governance system? I am all for better ways of doing things. Can you explain more of what you mean here? @poojaranjan

Maybe because an EIP is essentially a protocol for improvement in Ethereum, which is created to undergo an upgrade

As far as this goes the waters are already pretty muddy. As Core-EIPs (requiring a hardfork), Core-Networking-EIPs (note requiring a Hardfork, but clients need to implement them), ERCs, and other Meta EIPs already use the same processes.

The bigger question would be of governance. EIP Editors and the AllCoreDev calls are all that we have to work with. I personally do not want to and do not think I am qualified to be an EIP editor but to have credentials to maintain the list directly in the case it was a file I would need to be.

This also might be something that could Exist on Ethereum/PM with an EIP used to ratify the list.

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
I am not sure I understand what you mean by using a File as opposed to an EIP. You mean something outside of the current governance system? I am all for better ways of doing things. Can you explain more of what you mean here? @poojaranjan
Apologies for the confusion. I am not opposed to an EIP in general or suggesting anything outside of the current governance system. My suggestion for creating a file was specific for tracking EIPs 'eligible for inclusion'.
My understanding is EIP 2378 is a proposal of process flow by which every core EIP has to undergo to be finally included in an upgrade, which is fine because we need to document the process.
My suggestion is, can we have this tracker at GitHub (EIP / Ethereum / ECH) and not in any EIP?About keeping the tracker up to date:
  • anyone can make a PR to update an existing file on GitHub, once the tracker is created
  • no one necessarily needs to have the access to merge the PR or to be an EIP editor. So, it wouldn't matter which GitHub is decided to store 'eligible for inclusion' tracker.
IMO, you being the HF coordinator may be the right one to propose on the repo you would want to use.
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
About the current situation of EIP repo, I want to update you that Cat Herders are now in touch with EIP editors to help with the cleanup. Hopefully, we will manage to have a good working relationship with EIP Editors to avoid delay.
Having said that, I just want to assure you that Cat Herders are here for support, please feel free to reach us for any additional support you may need.
Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Ethereum Cat Herders Update #15
James Hancock
@MadeofTin

About the current situation of EIP repo, I want to update you that Cat Herders are now in touch with EIP editors to help with the cleanup. Hopefully, we will manage to have a good working relationship with EIP Editors to avoid delay.

I would love to be a part of this conversation as improving the EIP process is part of what needs to happen for Ethereum to have more effective upgrade plans.

Pooja Ranjan
@poojaranjan
Of course, that is the idea. I would dm you with details to avoid spamming this channel :)
Anett Rolikova
@anettrolikova
Hey guys, I feel like community needs to know more about Ice Age and difficulty bomb. I would like to compose an article about it but I don’t feel like I have enough tech knowledge to do so. However, I collected sources into this doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/12myr2KIh8oT-UOp8X_eassbotPmR0EUFw2EAbUVp2po/edit?usp=sharing if anyone would like to do an article, feel free to use these sources :)
Tim Beiko
@timbeiko
@anettrolikova thanks for taking the lead! I think there is a high likelihood that there will be another fork to address this, and that if so, we will need a relevant blog post. We should know better by the end of next week.
Anett Rolikova
@anettrolikova
@timbeiko yeah, that’s why I think that this article would be helpful to write up
Anthony (from EthHub.io) started to write it but he haven’t got time for it. Anthony’s write up (not finished) https://github.com/ethhub-io/ethhub/blob/master/docs/ethereum-basics/difficultybomb.md
I feel like this is a good opportunity for Cat Herders to take over this :)
Lane Rettig
@lrettig
@anettrolikova I can’t take it over but I can contribute. I did a bunch of work to calculate the effects of the bomb for Byzantium, along with @MadeofTin.
Anett Rolikova
@anettrolikova
awesome :) @lrettig feel free to contribute
Peter Pratscher
@ppratscher
FYI: Parity Ethereum v2.5.11-stable is an emergency patch release that adds the missing eip1344_transition for mainnet - Users are advised to update as soon as possible to prevent any issues with the imminent Istanbul hardfork
Will update ethernodes to reflect that
Phil
@phillux
URGENT RELEASE: Please download the latest releases, Parity Ethereum v2.5.11-stable and v2.6.6-beta to make sure you're ready for the Istanbul hard fork on December 7th, 2019. Alternatively, you can just download the updated chainspec and run your client as parity --chain foundation.json
tvanepps
@tvanepps
any chance we can get the updated call links / notes here?
Danno Ferrin
@shemnon
Future meeting request: If network upgrade block timing is ever on the agenda for a specific upgrade (i.e. we are picking blocks or the day of a block) can we be sure to ping Infura and miner operators to make sure they are on the call?
and any other node operators of note, like exchanges?
Tim Beiko
@timbeiko
On AllCoreDevs, or the ECH calls?
Danno Ferrin
@shemnon
ACD
ECH seems to have a better grasp on who should get invites to ACD.
Or we could just put it on hudson’s plate.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
@tvanepps I have a pull request waiting to be approved that adds all those links to the REDME.md, up to the recent #76 meeting for Fri Nov 29, notes included.
Working on a few tweeks before it will be accepted.
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
OK, tweeks are complete with the above pull request, including the new links, and is now ready to be accepted.
James Hancock
@MadeofTin
We can add that to my plate @shemnon Anyone have those contacts so they can share with me?