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  • Feb 28 19:45
    @Arachnid banned @merkle_tree_twitter
  • Feb 17 00:56
    @jpitts banned @Aquentson_twitter
  • Apr 09 2018 04:14
    @holiman banned @JennyJennywren_twitter
  • Oct 21 2017 19:12
    @Arachnid banned @Musk11
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
From Grigore: how to count gas without metering it.
https://gitter.im/runtimeverification/iele-semantics?at=5bb41fa51c100a4f29212814
Paul D.
@poemm
@gcolvin I have proposed something similar for ewasm. I want to build tools for this in PyWebAssembly, and present advantages/disadvantages of various metering methods to everyone. But too busy lately getting ewasm WebAssembly engines ready before devcon.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
@poemm I look forward to post-devcon discussions
Paul D.
@poemm
@gcolvin Likewise.
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP
We at raiden network test our contracts at Ropsten since it's the only PoW network usable by both clients.
Tim Siwula
@fluffypomeranian
How many reads/second can a client support?
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP
@holiman by quickly scanning the channel can't see when is the proposed Ropsten breaking happening?
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
@LefterisJP at block 4.2M, roughly around 12th pf October, afaik
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP
I see. Is it a done deal? Or will it be postponed after all?
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
It's not a done deal, but it needs quick decision
Hence the tweet
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP
:+1:
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
How bad would it be for you if there was a chain split?
How long would you manage without a non-broken ropsten?
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP

Tweet served its purpose :) . I am here saying we heavily use ropsten for testing our contracts atm. We are rather close to mainnet release and really don't want to add the task of finding another testnet on top of my team right now.

How bad would it be for you if there was a chain split?

Would effectively make testing almost impossible. Say a chainsplit between parity/geth. Half of us use parity, other half geth to test both clients.

How long would you manage without a non-broken ropsten?

I don't understand the question. You mean for how much longer do we need a testnet?

Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
I mean if we had a split for four days, how bad would that be?
Péter Szilágyi
@karalabe
So, we're wrapping up our release and wondering what the final course of action should be?
I think we definitely need to do the SHA3 gas cost addition, otherwise it's just asking for a DOS
So, do we fork at the appointed block, or do we delay? Imho since Parity released a stable version with the block set in stone, Ropsten is forking into two at that point. One old, the other invalid.
As such, I don't think it makes sense to postpone to a different block, since you either remain on old Ropsten and don't update, or you need to update to a fresh release.
It will be a mess, yes. Personally I don't mind that much because imho Ropsten is reaching it's end of life anyway. A testnet is supposed to be light and easy to use, but Ropsten became way too heavy already. I don't mind if it breaks up and joins Morden in history.
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
Did Parity? I understood otherwise? @5chdn ?
And yes, SHA3 gascost is in, afai have been able to assess consensus
André Silva
@andresilva
afaik we still haven't released any version that sets the HF block on ropsten. and we have a pending PR with CREATE2 gas cost changes
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP

I mean if we had a split for four days, how bad would that be?

Pretty bad. At such point I would prefer a new PoW testnet.

A testnet is supposed to be light and easy to use, but Ropsten became way too heavy already. I don't mind if it breaks up and joins Morden in history.

For us and our testing consistency with older data is not required. We can easily afford to re-deploy to a new PoW testnet (that's lighter than Ropsten) that can be used by both clients. As long as such a testnet exists and we don't have to do that often.

Péter Szilágyi
@karalabe

Pretty bad. At such point I would prefer a new PoW testnet.

Well, you could gasp wait 4 days with resuming testing on the public testnet ;P

or perhaps run your own private testnet for heavy testing?
Noel Maersk
@veox
Continuing to run the pre-fork Ropsten is also an option.
AFAIK, Raiden is in public testing. As in, the general public has been invited to use this version, prior to the main-net release.
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP

Continuing to run the pre-fork Ropsten is also an option.

That is an option.

or perhaps run your own private testnet for heavy testing?

What @veox said. It's not just us testing.

Well, you could gasp wait 4 days with resuming testing on the public testnet ;P

We are on a feature freeze so testing is our main focus right now. 4 days of development is a lot

Péter Szilágyi
@karalabe
You've been working on raiden for 3 years ;P
Ok, I don't want to come off as an asshole really. Someone will be unhappy either way imho :)
Lefteris Karapetsas
@LefterisJP
If you want to break Ropsten, please provide an alternative ethereum testnet that is compatible with both major clients and we will switch to it.
If not then I would appreciate not breaking Ropsten.
EOS Classic
@eosclassicteam
If Ropsten is being a problem we can launch a new, clean testnet as it was discussed on last dev call
But it will require us to manage a new chain for "test" purpose which is useless :joy:
Péter Szilágyi
@karalabe
Yes, I obviously want to break rospten
Preferrably mainnet too
Ideally the entire internet
Mikhail Kalinin
@mkalinin
:joy_cat:
EOS Classic
@eosclassicteam
:joy:
Still we can break ASIC miners on ethereum :joy:
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
.... Can we please use the testnet for testing for a few weeks, we have a hardfork coming up
EOS Classic
@eosclassicteam
If someone rent nicehash we can make the fork today :joy:
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
Let's launch a hashimoto-progow testnet when we've gotten further on that part, that can replace ropsten, but probably not for a few weeks
Before that, I personally would like if we can go ahead as planned
EOS Classic
@eosclassicteam
@holiman +1 for the suggestion, we need testnet for further implemention like Pool and Miners
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
I would like to remind everyone that the fact that teams like Raiden and their users are testing on the public test net is actually good for that public testnet. It is much more likely to get bugs discovered than a testnet without any users (because it was broken for few days and everyone had to migrate to another). I would still recommend to complete pre-testnet testing before pushing for the test net.