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Lucas Saldanha
@lucassaldanha
I think it is a good idea. I’m not sure if anyone else is setting up a block explorer for Stureby.
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
@/all All core devs meeting tomorrow. Please add to the agenda
Ghost
@ghost~5bf74ce8d73408ce4fafd49f
Can anyone here merge these two PRs for EIP update? Thanks ethereum/EIPs#1588 , ethereum/EIPs#1589
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
@naikmyeong Merged.
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
@/all Join URL for the meeting: https://zoom.us/j/867663881
Ghost
@ghost~5bf74ce8d73408ce4fafd49f
@gcolvin Thanks, appreciated :thumbsup:
Mikhail Kalinin
@mkalinin
I also span up a Byzantium node
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
I will unfortunately not make the allcoredev call today
5chdn
@5chdn
what is this google doc in the agenda about, where does it come from? what kind of meetings are that? where and when did they happen? and where were they announced?
André Silva
@andresilva
whats the point of #1588? the only purpose of such an EIP is to set the transition blocks and it doesn't set any
5chdn
@5chdn
@andresilva to be fair, the same is true for https://github.com/naikmyeong/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-1013.md
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
@5chdn It was an ad-hoc meeting in Prague, that is why it was not announced. Nothing substantial happened there, so there is not much to discuss yet. I was actually one of the people who asked not to publicise this before we actually do any work. As you might have seen in the doc, the idea is to iterate private->public->private. I personally have a feeling that performing all discussion in public (like core calls) leads to very passive meetings. I can expand more on this, but please don't FOMO. There were people who wanted everything to be public from the start. I understand that lots of people would feel excluded, but believe me, you don't want to discuss the same things that were discussed hundred times before, without someone actually going and doing some data analysis, research, prototypes. Some intermediate results we could be uncomfortable to share, because we doubt ourselves if they were correct.
@5chdn There is nothing exclusive or glamorous about these meetings - it is taking on more work on ourselves...
André Silva
@andresilva
@5chdn fair enough
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
I will join today's call, but only for the first 40 minutes or so
5chdn
@5chdn
I vehemently disagree, how to explain that people on Reddit that there is no "secret cabal ruling" Ethereum if you don't make it at least transparent that these meetings are happening.
Also how do you get Vitalik and Joe in one room without any coordination? Hard to believe this was ad hoc.
And who is to choose the people that are allowed to know private meetings and those who don't?
Ghost
@ghost~5bf74ce8d73408ce4fafd49f
I assume it was illuminati , @5chdn :joy:
I am sad for being an ethereum holder haha
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
By ad-hoc I mean it was gathered within couple of hours. I did not expect Joe or Vitalik to actually be there, there weren't actually required
the way it happens - you just have a conversation with someone, and then someone else comes along, and then we talk about Eth 1.0 and Eth 2.0, and then we decide to ask some more Core Devs some more questions, and agree to meet in 2 hours. Then, suddenly, there is a room of 20 people - I did not expect that to happen. You can do it yourself if you want to, and have your own "cabal" :)
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
and, of course, these meetings do not make any decision, so there is no "ruling cabal", they just coordinate some more work that people want to do. Not all work has to happen under the projector lights of Reddit or Twitter, or Coindesk articles. Do you want to ban all Ethereum-related private meetings now?
@5chdn Are you prepared to start publicising all meetings that happen at Parity related to Ethereum? Or should I publish all transcripts of all my conversations with people? Please don't be transparency extremist, there is a balance to be found
5chdn
@5chdn
I don't want to ban anything. Why should I? Just saying that if you want to have private working groups, that's finer and makes sense but you should be transparent and maybe start with a public announcement.
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
I don't want to announce things I am planning to do, I want to announce things that I have done
5chdn
@5chdn
That's two different things
In meetings you don't work on things
You discuss things and eventually make decisions

Are you prepared to start publicising all meetings that happen at Parity related to Ethereum?

At Parity we don't have meetings

Also, I don't see how this contributes to the discussion

and, of course, these meetings do not make any decision

There are action items on the document, they have been made by a decision

ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
Ok, I am really glad you don't have meetings. But some people do have meetings, and I think they should be allowed to have them without public announcements
5chdn
@5chdn
Not if they are about a public, decentralized protocol!
And it's not about me, or Parity, I couldn't care less. It's about the whole community, developers, and potential contributors you are excluding here!
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
I am excluding people on initial phases, simply because my human cognitive limitations - I cannot interact with the whole community
5chdn
@5chdn
So how do you choose the people to exclude?
ledgerwatch
@AlexeyAkhunov
I do not choose. I cannot be fair to everyone. As I told you before, this was ad-hoc
I did not know we would be having this meeting a few hours before it happened
it will be opened up, when there is enough new material to share
someone has to start work by picking disparate EIPs, articles, and put them together
what I needed is a group that can support such work on initial stages, and that looked like a group that could provide that
Martin Holst Swende
@holiman
@5chdn we have daily geth-team standups. Sometimes, we even talk about Ethereum. Should we post minutes every day?
5chdn
@5chdn
If you make decisions about Ethereum's future in Geth standups, yes?
Not sure if you are trolling
I question two things here:
  • Who chooses who knows about these meetings
  • Why are the notes being kept secret
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
Just tuning in, but IIUC the problem that @5chdn has is not that people are meeting and discussing things, but that they are making decisions and choosing course of action for the Ethereum protocol.
jwasinger
@jwasinger

have to say I'm a bit disappointed to be seemingly-uninvited from subsequent meetings after the first even though I just want to listen in. The responses I get when talking to others who have attended said meetings range between "oh it was ad-hoc.. sorry", "sorry I didn't feel like it was appropriate to invite a +1 to the meeting".

My saltiness aside, I can understand that it is easier to iterate when the spotlight is not shining on your every movement. Godspeed with the research and I look forward to implementing the changes once they are made public and agreed upon!