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KaiRo
@kairo:mozilla.org
[m]
I was interested in the EIP process as our team may want to drive something through the standardization process at some point, but I guess we'll just cross that bridge when we get there.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
I’m contracted to do some Ethereum work, @kairo:mozilla.org, but most of what I do is volunteer, and long predates the move to Discord. So I’m in a bind there. I’m already taking more risk legally than I’d like as a core developer, and this doesn’t help.
KaiRo
@kairo:mozilla.org
[m]
I fully understand, I wouldn't be happy either
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
Making a "stink" about a "stink" move us towards no "stink", doesn't it?
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
I don’t know, but doing open development on closed platforms stinks, period.
KaiRo
@kairo:mozilla.org
[m]
That said, for quite some time, finding a decent open alternative to Discord and Slack was hard, but Matrix/Element (which has taken over Gitter as well) is pretty decent already and getting better all the time. I was pretty happy when slightly less than a year ago, Mozilla switched to Matrix for synchronous messaging with the community (as that's been the main project I have been involved in over the years) and it has grown on me even more since.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
They all suck, I think ;) At least Gitter integrates with Github fairly well. But I’ve been happy enough with email for a long time.
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu

And reading the Discord ToS, I shiver. They get full copyrights and any others rights on anything posted there, for example. And many other things I do not intend to sign on for.

Do you happen to have a specific quote/line for this? I find it quite surprising.

I did a cursory look through their ToS and I don't see anything about giving up copyrights by talking in Discord.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
"By uploading, distributing, transmitting or otherwise using Your Content with the Service, you grant to us a perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable, royalty-free, sublicensable, and worldwide license to use, host, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, and display Your Content in connection with operating and providing the Service."
Brent Allsop
@BrentAllsop
I see "nonexclusive" in there, so is that still a problem?
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Not sure.
https://matrix.org/legal/terms-and-conditions
"We do not claim intellectual property rights over rooms, message content or files uploaded to the Service."
So why does Discord need so much more?
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu

[...] in connection with operating and providing the Service

I believe that this last bit is pretty critical.

My interpretation is that they don't have rights to use your content for whatever they want, only "in connection with operating and providing the service".
Meaning if they were to start publicly publishing chat history somewhere else they would be allowed to do so.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
Maybe. I’m not a lawyer, and don’t want to hire one. I worry about " modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from"
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu

So why does Discord need so much more?

I believe it may be a matter of Discord has a more anal retentive legal team. In my experience, this is usually what causes people to go from The Unlicense to CC0 to Apache 2.0.

The Unlicense is like 3 sentences and basically says "do whatever you want". CC0 is a few pages and says the same thing. Apache adds in (unfortunately) attribution and (fortunately) patent protection.
People who just want to write code and don't hire lawyers use The Unlicense. Big companies refuse to use anything short of Apache license (even though it requires attribution and they don't actually care about attribution) because it is much more specific/explicit.
An example of "modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works" could be as simple as putting an excerpt of your text on the front page of Discord.com as part of promotional material like "see what people are chatting about in Discord now!" where they take it out of context and perhaps add some artistic flair to it.
FWIW, I am a fan of Matrix and I'm hoping they can get their client to be on-par with Discord in terms of functionality, features, reliability, responsiveness, etc.
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
At Oracle I once used the GCC compiler to compile the kernel of our JVM so I could use its address-of-label extension. That required that I include one Gnu header file that defined the arithmetic operators. Our lawyers were worried that -despite all the disclaimers in the file itself - doing so could drag the entire Oracle codebase under the GPL bus. I had to not include the file, and instead wrap every floating point operation in the interpreter with a function call to the system-native operation. Lawyers are paid to worry.
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
:point_up:
Since leaving the US, renouncing my citizenship, and refusing to return my life has become much less complicated. 😁
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
I was once in love with a Filipina. Might have done the same and moved to the Philippines, but she had only recently obtained her own US citizenship and wouldn’t leave San Francisco. In the end I went back to Colorado until my current partner dragged me to her home in Kentucky. “Life is what happens while you’re making other plans."
Anyway, back to designing a Bloom filter tree. Very cool data structure.
Mahdi amolimoghadam
@9150307005
Support app json security
Blaine Malone
@blmalone

Random thought I had earlier. I wanted to see if it has any legs....

So I'm aware that erc721 doesn't specify how to mint/destroy nft's.

I think that's for good reason, so people can get creative.

I was wondering if there's room for a more detailed EIP around the creation of specific NFTs. Currently, artists don't even need to have an Ethereum address or provide a signature against their pieces. They simply hand it to the auctioneer, who advertises it as authentic. Feels wrong to me in some contexts.

Ken Anderson
@kenthejr
Question about EIPs in general. Why are they Creative Commons (CC0) vs an OSI license like Apache2 or MIT?
borovan
@borovan

Since leaving the US, renouncing my citizenship, and refusing to return my life has become much less complicated. 😁

challenge accepted

Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
😬
Greg Colvin
@gcolvin
I hear you, @borovan and @MicahZoltu, but I’m the oldest of six siblings, and lose count of my cousins, neices, nephews, grandnieces, grandnephews, and even a greatgrandniece. Plus inlaws, outlaws, and over sixty years worth of friends. I’m not leaving.
Vittorio Minacori
@vittominacori

Hello guys, what do you think about the idea of having an onchain Ethereum Package Repository and Registry where people could publish their contracts with versions and then those contracts can be cloned using eip-1167

Each Repository will be a package linking to an already deployed contract with different versions and Registry will list all of them.

I’m considering to write an EIP but I would like to have a quick feedback before. Thanks

Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
I recommend asking on ethereum-magicians. My gut feeling is that there is no reason for that sort of thing to be on-chain.
Vittorio Minacori
@vittominacori
The goal is to have a preset of contracts already deployed, in order to be able to clone and deploy cheaper.
Imagine you can call Repository.clone(“v1.1", initData) instead of depoying in a classic way
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
Runtime costs for that contract would likely be higher.
Vittorio Minacori
@vittominacori
So do you think that it couldn’t be helpful in any case? It seems that Minimal proxy adds 700 gas per call.
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
In most cases, the cost of contract deployment is insignificant compared to runtime costs of contracts. There are of course exceptions, but that is the common case.
corkywithac
@corkywithac
So
jtakalai
@jtakalai
Hi, a question on the different token standards: ERC667 is a non-EIP but nevertheless well defined and used by LINK at least. It's not even mentioned in some lists like https://codepen.io/jarraddenzel/pen/VoKJgN or https://eips.ethereum.org/all . Is there a reason ERC667 never made it into a standard despite seeing some use?
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
Sometimes people just abandon their EIPs.
jtakalai
@jtakalai
it's interesting though to see transferAndCall in 4 tokens in top 100, and yet not enough interest (e.g. from those token devs) to promote it. By contrast, the only ERC-777 token I found in Etherscan is https://etherscan.io/token/0x89Ab32156e46F46D02ade3FEcbe5Fc4243B9AAeD and it's not in top 100.
Do you happen to know other projects that use ERC-777? Seems Aragon is at least interested aragon/aragonOS#163 but it's not clear how widely used "all tokens Aragon generates" really is
Micah Zoltu
@MicahZoltu
🤷‍♂️
ashrowz
@ashrowz
Hello, I have created an EIP for an interface that wraps NFTs with ERC20 tokens: ethereum/EIPs#3384. Would anyone mind reviewing it?
axel simon
@axelsimon
Hi everyone, i work at Red Hat on the sigstore project, which you may have heard of recently: it's a public good system to help make it possible to verify provenance of software, using signatures and a shared root of trust