These are chat archives for ethereum/homestead-guide

11th
Feb 2016
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Feb 11 2016 00:32
Yikes. Thanks for the heads-up, @hughlang!
Someone on reddit suggested we organize who edits what page, so please put your name down in the google doc for whatever page you are working on to avoid overlapping
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 00:43
that's a good idea
klmoney
@klmoney
Feb 11 2016 01:34
I am going to work on the Account related pages - compile, update.
Is there any kind of rough deadline for the guide?
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 01:35
good question. was afraid to ask that one
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Feb 11 2016 02:52
Haha. That's a funny question
We want to get it out before Homestead is released
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 02:53
soon I assume?
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Feb 11 2016 02:53
However, we do not know of the Homestead release, but I personally estimate it being 3-6 weeks
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 02:53
ok good to know
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Feb 11 2016 02:53
So I'm confident we can bug enough people to help write parts of the guide they are subject matter experts in and get it done :P
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 02:54
it feels like people are helping out
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Feb 11 2016 02:55
I agree
barkthins
@barkthins
Feb 11 2016 02:57
I have a request, having just spent 3 months learning the ecosystem. Please make the code examples actual working examples. In fact snippets or full code from actual working tests would be the best. Maybe a snippet from the test and then a link to the full test on github. I spent endless hours chasing down issues related to "well, that code isn't the full picture, it won't run as shown"...
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 02:57
I'm not certain that the homestead guide is a programming guide.
Maybe a starting point
barkthins
@barkthins
Feb 11 2016 02:58
fair enough. The programming guides need to be updated for homestead. Where's the forum for that?
hughlang
@hughlang
Feb 11 2016 02:58
Truly
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Feb 11 2016 03:34
@barkthins That sucks that the code examples were incomplete. Here is the purpose and audience for the homestead guide: https://ethereum-homestead.readthedocs.org/en/latest/about.html#purpose-and-audience
So basically, any examples or code snippets we do will be short and only to highlight very specific points (creating an account, checking balance, etc.)
As far as the Ethereum tutorials on the Ethereum.org site, I am less privy to who handles those or if they will be updated.
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Feb 11 2016 04:16
@barkthins this is very generic, please point to specific examples that you had trouble with so we could fix them, thanks
barkthins
@barkthins
Feb 11 2016 08:43
@zelig example: https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/JavaScript-API#web3ethsendtransaction how do you know it's mined? you have to go find some other arbitrary snippet of code and the two don't work together (heck I can't even find the example). Second example: It's lore on how to find out if you've run out of gas. I solved this with a complete working example on stackexchange that is also an almost complete working example to find out if a transaction has been mined: http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/1181/how-do-i-know-when-ive-run-out-of-gas/1182#1182
basically you need to show a complete round trip for transactional semantics, just like you would for a database. AFAICT there isn't a full code example for it. Frankly, it should be part of the web3.js API, you'll notice in my stackexchange example I extended the web3 API...
I have pointed out inadequate documents several times but usually everyone is too busy to fix the issues. I'm glad stackexchange is up and working, I think it's helping solve this problem. Perhaps you should mine stackexchange for the most common problems a new dev. would face, and at least link to the stackexchange item from simplified examples. e.g. "here's the basic API for doing X. For a more complete example of doing this, see http://stackexchange..."
I'll be happy to review any web3 related examples in the homestead guide and provide better examples
barkthins
@barkthins
Feb 11 2016 08:48
I think one of the problems is also fundamental to homestead: You are focusing on app-app and appstore stuff, but IMHO the real money is interacting with off chain elements. That's what my startup is doing. Off chain is where all the money is :-)
the fact that you even need to mine a transaction (reaching back in to my 3 month old memories) isn't completely obvious to a newbie. My first solidity contract I wrote to try and understand the semantics of ethereum is a contract has an API that simply increments a value and allows you to read it back. If you put that example in with full round trip on compiling, deploying a contract instance, calling the API to increment a value, and then reading the value back after the transaction has mined, you'll have gone a long way to getting newbies understanding how state works on ethereum and how the APIs work. You also might discover how many LOC that is and simplify the web3 API :-)
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Feb 11 2016 11:34
This message was deleted
dear @barkthins why dont you write up this tutorial yourself? your suffering wouldnt have been in vain :smile: Note that such walkthroughs are not really what this book is about, however tutorials exist and will be referenced in the book
I do not understand what you mean by " the real money is interacting with off chain elements" exactly. but let's not hijack this room for this unless you think it is relevant to the documentation project
klmoney
@klmoney
Feb 11 2016 16:19
@zelig @Souptacular I have submitted an issue with some suggestions for reorganizing parts of the guide outline especially relating to accounts/wallets:
ethereum/homestead-guide#17