These are chat archives for ethereum/homestead-guide

14th
Mar 2016
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 00:06
I don't think anyone has yet. I can do that tonight if @bobsummerwill hasn't already.
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 00:07
If you are referring to the lack of depth in the other ethereum clients versus c++, we went with minimum viable info with links to other resources
at least for now
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 00:58
The C++ documentation is a bit of a special case, because we're actually taking the opportunity to consolidate and replace the TurboEthereum gitbook and our existing Wiki and moving everything here. I've still got work to do, but the intention is for this to be THE documentation for the C++ client. We won't have a "C++ book" or a "C++ wiki". Instead we'll have everything here. That gives us a nice PR process for reviewing documentation changes, and lets us tidy-up and kill off all the "old stuff".

If the Go team wants to do a similar migration from https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/wiki to http://docs.ethereum.org/en/latest/ethereum-clients/go-ethereum/go-ethereum.html I think that would make a lot of sense. It is a lot of work, though. I've been burning the midnight oil to get to where I am, and there is still a lot of work to do.

I'm picking that work up again now after a few hours of family time, and will likely be working pretty much straight through from here to Homestead transition. What have we got left now? About 8 hours to go?

I think it's worth it, though.
So yeah - I don't have any capacity to add any more content for the other client teams. Barring a migration plan, I don't think that would make a lot of sense, either, because it will just be a maintenance burden. We really need more people to get engaged with this documentation work.
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 01:04
@Souptacular said ... "I'm not sure who put my name on top on contributors/organziers. I agree it should be all one list.". I think that was me. We just got another contributor. I'll make a PR now to add him, and move you and zelig down in with us plebs then, if you are both OK with that?
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 01:05
Haha sounds good
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 01:08
haha
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 02:04
Please review/merge:
"Fixed all the warnings which were showing up and updated the credits"
ethereum/homestead-guide#144
I'll have a look at the TravisCI breaks too.
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 02:10
Bah - 144 needs a merge conflict resolving now. I will do that.
^ Conflict resolved. TravisCI might still be pooped, but let's ignore that.
Review and merge-at-will :-) Thanks!
Putting the kids to bed. Back in an hour or less for the final push.
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 02:46
Leave me a note if you need something from me. I’ll be up early in about 6-7 hours
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 02:54
I'm back on. Someone tell me what is left to do and what I can help with :D
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 03:13
@tgerring RE: go documentation. I think we should hold off on inlining the go documentation from the Wiki until we know the Go team wants to move it. When this whole thing first started people were ancy about another documentation site attempt, so it may be better to wait. That being said, many of the examples in the guide involve geth.
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 03:19
I'm tackling the mining page right now
That looks like the page that needs the most work atm
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 04:29
Hey @Souptacular!
Please can you review-and-merge ethereum/homestead-guide#139
Having it would be better than not having it, even if we need to tweak it again tonight or tomorrow. I'll poke Ming too.
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 04:30
cool cool reviewing now
I'm 80% done with mining
It is a doozy
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 04:56
@bobsummerwill Mining page is done, but I grossly messed up when trying to make a PR
sooo I think the changes are in there, but I couldn't get the PR reverted properly. You will likely see a few bad PR attempts I had to close XD
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 05:05
I need to learn the finer points of branches it seems lol
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 05:14
It's easy enough to screw up. I've done it myself many times. Do a merge you don't mean to and you've poisoned the well. And I don't think you can undo that. You just need to abandon the scene of the crime, and refork from earlier. That's all fine-and-good-and-gittish. But it utterly screws with PRs, which assume a fixed branch location and cannot be "moved".
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 05:32
Yeah, it appears it didn't do too much damage,
Or did it?
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 05:37
I don't think so. Thanks!
Rocky Fikki
@rfikki
Mar 14 2016 05:54
I do believe miner.hashrate has been changed to eth.hashrate should I create a PR with regards to the mining section?
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 06:19
Go for it, @rfikki - thanks!
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 08:47
You around @Souptacular or @zelig? I'm assuming not, so will just keeping ploughing through ...
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Mar 14 2016 09:15
Hey
I. Boarding the last plane will only be available bn 4 hours again if...
Bob. I just saw you made a separate chapter on clients. And just put it flat to level! Appended to the end!??? Is this just something temporary?
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Mar 14 2016 09:24
You know guys it all starts to look like the frontier guide was the right way
As we squeeze more and more into the topical sections . 'Basic usage‘ is no longer valid
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 09:36

"Bob. I just saw you made a separate chapter on clients. And just put it flat to level! Appended to the end!??? Is this just something temporary?"

Sorry - please could you clarify, @zelig?

Look at:
http://docs.ethereum.org/en/latest/using-ethereum-the-basics/installing-a-client.html
http://docs.ethereum.org/en/latest/ethereum-clients/index.html
I've just finished a bunch of time on getting those in what I think seems a rational shape.
"And just put it flat to level!"
^ Sorry, but i don't know what you saying here.
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 09:43

" 'Basic usage‘ is no longer valid "
^ By this, do you mean that we just have too much detail? If so, I think you are probably right, and that we might be well served in the coming days and weeks by working out what we can strip OUT. And looking to layer content, so we have super-simple and accessible pages at the same, and those can refer to pages which go into more detail.

Homestead has been a line-in-the-sand to aim for, but it's not like we're "done", is it? This is going to be an ongoing effort for a very long time.

Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 09:48
"Bob. I just saw you made a separate chapter on clients."
So http://docs.ethereum.org/en/latest/ethereum-clients/cpp-ethereum/ is the new and permanent home of all the Ethereum C++ documentation. We made stubs for the other clients, to gather general information on them, links, etc. Do you have an issue with this section existing? It's been there for several days, or a week even, and is where I have been most of my work.
Do you think that should be nested under Ethereum Ecosystem? Please could you just clarify your thoughts? You seem a bit surprised and/or unhappy?
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 12:28
FYI it looks great on mobile. I never checked before
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 12:53
I kind of liked the nav layout of Ethereum Clients before
If you remove the secondary layer, you just have the individual clients as the subnav
You can still have the intro text (i think) if you remove the section heading and just make it bold and put it in index.rst before the TOC
Basically how it was before
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 12:58
I do like the intro to Ethereum Clients with the table. Migrating it from “Installing…"
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Mar 14 2016 13:01
Well yes. We were supposed to have detailed install instructions for the clients. Now we got a lot of empty sections about clients we never had the intention to write about and neither did they.
The cpp doc migration is ok but it has to be aligned with the structure
We cannot just insert info about eth rpc where in the parallel section is about
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Mar 14 2016 13:19
This is kind of my view and more and more inclined towards topical structuring which makes separate client sections
Unnecessary
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 13:30
please give an example of topical structuring. I don’t understand yet
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Mar 14 2016 13:52
The frontier guide
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 13:53
i see
yes that structure is quite good
something to work towards i guess
Leans heavily towards geth though
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 15:22

OK - so today is a new day. Let's fix it up.
The C++ client section is the real deal, but I think the stubs make sense for the other clients as well.

So what we want to do, then, is to add detailed instructions INLINE a-la https://ethereum.gitbooks.io/frontier-guide/content/installing_linux.html into http://docs.ethereum.org/en/latest/using-ethereum-the-basics/installing-a-client.html? Or adding sub-pages in there? In a platform-oriented way? And for which clients?

I added ...

  • Follow the :ref:Installing binaries instructions for cpp-ethereum
  • For go-ethereum, just unzip the released binaries <https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/releases>_

But you want it inline, @zelig? Wouldn't it be better to just have "installing binaries" pages for each of the client, under those stubs, and to link to those from this page?

For the C++ client, I went through a bunch of pain to cleanly separate the "installing binaries" from "building from source" instructions. They were often mixed together. And that matters now, because I assume those most end-users won't be building from source.
I think we're better with linking to pages here than having inline, and having things client-oriented, rather than Linux/Windows/OSX oriented. The latter worked for Frontier only because it was only talking about geth and eth. It won't scale well.
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 15:46
@bobsummerwill @Souptacular @zelig docs.ethereum.org redirect has been disabled at the request of legal clearance
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 15:46
@tgerring Okay. I will have a new domain up for it by EOD
Actually holding off for the moment pending more legal stuffs being talked through
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 16:59
Someone mentioned publishing the generated html to a CDN and mapping a domain to that. I think we should avoid a CDN if we are actively making updates. It depends on the degree of cache control you have
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 17:54
@/all What is a better name: ethdocs.io or etherdocs.io or ethereumdocs.io?
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 17:56
Would a simple .org be more appropriate?
Probably a lot cheaper as well...
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 17:56
Good point
ethdocs.org then?
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 17:57
lack of schelling point = need more data
i'm not convinced that we can't use docs.ethereum.org
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 17:57
I'll stay out of the final selection:). There are people here who put a lot of blood sweat n tears into this doc.
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 17:58
@tgerring Same here. However, for the time being there is no reason not to slap a domain on until it gets figured out
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 17:58
Temp domain until it gets figured out?
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 17:58
If we do go back to docs.ethereum.org I will just redirect
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 17:58
then my vote is for ethdocs.porn :laughing:
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 17:58
:)
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 17:58
Lmao... I'll second that... done!
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 17:59
ethdocs.porn is not taken
lol
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 17:59
.porn is expensive though
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 17:59
It would be a fantastic market ing ploy for the guide:)
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 17:59
Someone pass me the equivalent of $90 worth of eth and it's ours
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 17:59
i'm literally jsut searching for the most insane combination because i want to underscore a point
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 18:00
I'll bite... Point being?
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 18:00
well, the docs are still hosted in the ethereum github repository
so to take down a subdomain DNS entry because it confers ownership is silly
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 18:01
true
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 18:01
if you don't want to confer ownership, it should be in a separate repo
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 18:01
I agree, but since it isn't up to us I'd say for the moment we buy a not too expensive domain.
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 18:01
@Souptacular yeah, i wish it were cheaper :D
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 18:01
Also agreed. @tgerring once Ethereum champions is formed we will have a github
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 18:02
Ahh... Gotcha. Not completely privy to the whole convo... But I get the gist;)
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 18:02
Actually that isn't a bad idea. Can't Ethereum Champions just take it? I haven't officially started it, but it is soon
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 18:03
ethdocs.online is only $0.88 on namecheap
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 18:03
I'm cool getting ethdocs.org
It is only $12 and sounds more legit
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 18:04
sounds good
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 18:10
ethdocs.org is bought and set up. It will take a little bit for the DNS to propogate
John Gerryts
@phonikg
Mar 14 2016 18:33
It's up... Sorta;)
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 18:38
well fuck. It now redirects to the wrong page XD
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 18:38
i saw a twitter post directing them to the docs site
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 19:02
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 19:03
how did that happen?
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 19:04
A CNAME change on namecheap's end is messing up, or I did the wrong config :P
Omkara
@0mkara
Mar 14 2016 19:57
ethdocs and docs.ethereum.org both offline !!! :crying_cat_face:
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 19:59
Omkara
@0mkara
Mar 14 2016 20:05
:+1:
Viktor Trón
@zelig
Mar 14 2016 21:51
but I think soup had some reason to change it and
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 22:51
@/all EthDocs.org is up and running :D
Michael Thuy
@kingflurkel
Mar 14 2016 22:51
congrats
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 22:51
:clap:
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 22:52
Fuck CNAME records
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 22:52
haha
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 22:52
and fuck TTL settings
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 22:52
haha
Michael Thuy
@kingflurkel
Mar 14 2016 22:52
www hostname
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 22:52
woohoo!
Michael Thuy
@kingflurkel
Mar 14 2016 22:52
doesnt work without
Taylor Gerring
@tgerring
Mar 14 2016 22:52
well, apex zone restrictions suck
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 22:52
I know, what happened was my TTL was long and I didn't realize so when I messed up I had to wait :[
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 22:54
oh that sucks. some DNS providers default to 12 hours or something dumb. Godaddy defaults to 1 hour with an option for 30 mins
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 23:46
Are you going to announce the new URL, @Souptacular? Thanks!
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 23:46
Can do. On reddit?
Is it good enough for a full twitter, reddit, etc. announcement? I think it is
good enough meaning enough content and organized
@bobsummerwill
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 23:50
Yes - all that. This will essentially be the 1.0 announcement for the docs as the whole, won't it?
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 23:50
Yeah :D
Bob Summerwill
@bobsummerwill
Mar 14 2016 23:51
Make it so! Be loud. Be proud!
Hudson Jameson
@Souptacular
Mar 14 2016 23:51
haha
@tgerring Could you edit your Homestead FAQ post and add a line for documentation at ethdocs.org?
hughlang
@hughlang
Mar 14 2016 23:57
bravo!