These are chat archives for ethereum/tutorials

14th
Apr 2016
Gonzalo Casas
@gonzalocasas
Apr 14 2016 13:36
Hi peeps! Blockchain noob here... (probably) stupid question: I'm interested in the decentralized autonomous organization case showcased in the home page. Mainly use it to run a civil association (a swiss Verein, to be precise). Would this mean that every member would have to effectively PAY with Ether to cast a vote? Or do I have to use the custom tokens to generate sort of shares that are used to cast votes afterwards? And if so, is there a replenishment procedure or does it always imply spending Ether somewhere down the line?
Pi Delport
@pjdelport
Apr 14 2016 13:44
In general, someone has to pay Ether for the computation and storage, but there are multiple ways to approach it.
Gonzalo Casas
@gonzalocasas
Apr 14 2016 14:02
@pjdelport thanks! could you point me to some doc/wiki/page (or elaborate) on what are some of those multiple ways?
Pi Delport
@pjdelport
Apr 14 2016 14:04
@gonzalocasas: I'm not sure of a good overview offhand, aside from general Ethereum introductions, but at the simplest level, whichever account initiates a transaction pays for its execution.
However, service-oriented contracts can be written to refund the Ether used to run them, making the net cost to the caller zero. The calling account just needs some floating balance to get started.
The contract's balance for refunds would have to be topped up by some party sponsoring its execution, or similar.
Gonzalo Casas
@gonzalocasas
Apr 14 2016 14:12
Thanks! Yes, that was more or less my understanding. The refund Ether on service contracts is a good point. But anyway, this creates some friction for adoption
Pi Delport
@pjdelport
Apr 14 2016 14:17
If you're providing a public service in general, you can always sponsor some set amount of ether per user to bootstrap them.
Gonzalo Casas
@gonzalocasas
Apr 14 2016 14:17
So, correct me if I'm wrong but the recommended approach would be that to kickoff the DAO, a central organizer buys Ether, then distributes it to the members with voting rights, and implements a contract that refunds automatically its members on every vote. Right? How do I (as a DAO organizer) prevent that members take the Ether assigned for voting rights and spend it on any other random store? Is that where custom tokens come into play?
Pi Delport
@pjdelport
Apr 14 2016 14:17
This is not really any different to paying for server hosting.
Normally that cost is "invisible"; Ethereum just expresses as Ether, since your server hosting is effectively on the Ethereum network.
Gonzalo Casas
@gonzalocasas
Apr 14 2016 14:20
well, at some point it is different than server hosting... voting is a right of the member of an association, and is unlimited in nature. Limiting voting to a paid system introduces a foreign component that alters the nature of voting, so, the auto refund would somewhat restore the limitless nature of the voting right, but it does create an additional complexity to run the organization (not an unsurmountable one thou)
Pi Delport
@pjdelport
Apr 14 2016 14:22
You could separate voting from Ethereum transactions by building a concept of member identities, and implementing a way to express signed, trusted votes for each member.
Then any Ethereum account / transaction can submit a vote, as long as it's authentic and verifiable.
So then you could make a website with its own floating balance that allows members to submit votes through it.
And the website and its wallet carries the Ether cost.
Instead of the members having to deal with that complexity.
(But they would also be able to directly submit their votes without the website, if they want to.)
Ethereum is also working on ways to implement alternative gas payment schemes: https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/12/24/understanding-serenity-part-i-abstraction/ talks a bit about it.
Gonzalo Casas
@gonzalocasas
Apr 14 2016 14:53
Thanks @pjdelport ! I'll read up, but you already clarified quite a bit of foggy ideas I had about how it works