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  • Jul 09 2018 23:23
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Victor Goff
@kotp
Exercism v1 was the version where you could see the discussion as it happened, and could delete iterations as well (I know because I deleted many iterations from many different exercises that I had submitted)
Not everything though is a mistake, right? Some things are suboptimal, others are style related, some performance related, and may not matter at all, but interesting to talk about... so "mistakes" are probably very limited in reality.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
Yeah, I agree. I'm just trying to imagine the rationale for not allowing to share it
If it used to be shared, it must have been removed for a reason, eh
Victor Goff
@kotp
Not allowing to share it? I don't think we stop that... but we don't provide for a mechanism on platform to share that currently.
But yes, I am one of those people that are very much "don't look at me or my things" kind of person... very private and shy. I think the reason to not force the publicity and allow an opt-in is just that. The providing for a share functionality on platform is resource and implementation time...
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
Ah. I just mean, browsing community solutions doesn't give the same view as browsing my own mentored solution with commentary
Victor Goff
@kotp
Right on. Even the mentors that can view the iterations will see some information redacted...
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
After you've solved a solution yourself and received mentoring (if available) I see the biggest utility of exercism being viewing how someone at a higher level solved something
Usually the mentors point you to a quality solution
but how does someone with years of experience do it leveraging interesting language features
Right now, finding that seems like you just sort of stumble on it by browsing latest
I think there could be good value in making those more visible
Victor Goff
@kotp
I won't often show how I have solved something (unless it is interesting rather than optimal) I instead try to draw the student to their own solution, by revealing information that is available and relevant to what they are doing, and by asking them questions. So I wasn't aware that mentors are doing this "pointing to a quality solution".
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
i might have phrased that poorly
I don't mean they literally show you a solution
they more point out things you might not have known and nudge you in a direction
Victor Goff
@kotp
OK... so they try to bring you to solve a problem by asking leading questions, or at least thought provoking questions.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
right
Victor Goff
@kotp
Good to hear. There is value in reading code... but I find that I remember it better if I have to work through it at least a bit.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
Yeah
Take javascript. I've been trying to learn more about FP. I solve a problem but I know there is probably someone who solved it using a much FP style approach
It can be interesting to see what that looks like
Victor Goff
@kotp
Oh yeah, categorizing based on paradigms. I wonder if this can be done via an analyzer?
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
I don't know how these work in practice but I can imagine heuristics that would probably be accurate
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
image.png
So to get back to the original issue, what do you think about having some visual notification for listings that might be outdated?
Victor Goff
@kotp
I don't know. I get false "this exercise is outdated, update?" links on exercism. When I update, my solution is still valid. So does that make it any less interesting? Or more interesting?
I think the sorting of stars with 'newness' might be something. but it would be something to lose a very interesting solution due to time even though it is still relevant.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
I guess it depends but it at least gives some signal of which solutions are current
whatever the language is, the UI could represent 'may have changed'
Victor Goff
@kotp
That's the point though. Even though my solution was written in 2014, it is has survived 5 updates to the tests, and changing specifications, and still passes... that in itself may be interesting.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
I guess I'm thinking of cases where the solution is nonsensical when looking at the current version
Maybe this is for "Note: This solution was written on an old version of Exercism. The tests below might not correspond to the solution code, and the exercise may have changed since this code was written."
There's that and: "Note: This exercise has changed since this solution was written."
Does that make sense?
Victor Goff
@kotp
Yeah, "this exercise has changed since this solution was written" are the ones I usually see and when updated still works.
This will perhaps change once we get tests serverside though.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
If you look at https://exercism.io/tracks/python/exercises/poker/solutions/9fd9182b198e4d1fa2cb78e57f4d9152 and open the 'Test suite', the tests don't match the submission
The tests are calling best_hands which doesn't exist, so it's not even clear what the exercise looked like at that point
Victor Goff
@kotp
exercise or solution?
or test file?
Yeah, any of them, the readme might have changed as well, and we can't see the changes.
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
image.png
So I guess I wonder why someone would want to view this when you can't see what was being tested against. It's hard to make sense of
Why not signal that in the UI?
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
I think it makes more sense not to include old versions of exercism in most starred by default. Or at least add the ability to filter it
Jeff Sutherland
@jdsutherland
I take your point that there may be false positives and it still might be interesting but from the perspective of someone working on the current version of the exercise, it's hard to see why they would want to view it when the interface has changed and they can't tell what the exercise was like (instructions, tests) for the outdated submission
Victor Goff
@kotp
Yep, having the options is good.
This is probably good to post as an issue with the points discussed. Probably at https://github.com/exercism/exercism/issues