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    vvorski
    @vvorski
    testing links to issues #52
    yes. here workds.
    Pietro Speroni
    @pietrosperoni
    :clap:
    vvorski
    @vvorski
    • markdown
    • formatting
    • is nice...
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    super cool ! @pietrosperoni I think we now accomplished our first meeting discussion goal, the set of PM tools to manage Vilfredo better. Let's see if chatting here leaves the public github repos cleaner from chat. If it works, only "to-do's" and "done's" can be managed there (or via Waffle.io I loved that as well) thanks @serapath .
    As links work in fairdemocracy, and we are a few, I think we can have only that one place for conversations... what do you think ?
    Pietro Speroni
    @pietrosperoni
    I am still not convinced you can really substitute it. We have 1 room and about 100 issues, and the great thing about it is how we are discussing all of them in parallel. This system brings back a centralised place to discuss where you can only handle one topic at a time. Fun, good for meeting, but does not substitute answering in the issue, IMO
    Alexander Praetorius
    @serapath
    i'm using it for "software agency work", thus, everything is discussed in the chat with customers and its freestyle talking about whatever linking all the important "github issues" into the chat. Once we come to any kind of conclusion or important information is said in the chat, we always manually copy everything to the issues as a kind of "summary" of everything we concluded, so that the gitter chat NEVER contains any important information that is not on the waffle.io board.
    Our waffle.io board contains "the truth", the chat is just blabla to keep the waffle board (=github issues) clean.
    humans talk and words form and everything is verbose and can go to great length to make something clear. ...after everyone said everything, there is the option to make a summary (then, when everyone knows, because it was discussed) ...its only the summary that needs to be kept for future reference and not necessarily the way how it came up.... ....but, if ever needed, its possible to go to the chat.
    its also how metagovernment works. the mailinglist is a endless stream/feed of information, but the stuff thats there to stay is copied to the wiki.
    this is how the pirate party operates, ...they talk on mailinglists and forums, but the official stuff goes to the wiki
    this is also how everything works. in science the wikie would be the "network of scientifc papers" which do not include all the blah that created them
    in politics and business, people meet and discuss stuff and protocols are kept, but the real stuff goes into laws or otherform of "official summarys" that mean something
    Alexander Praetorius
    @serapath
    That said, it might not work out, because its a special project, but at least for other "software projects" it worked for me :-)
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    I am very inclined to agree with @serapath . First of all because
    Our waffle.io board contains "the truth", the chat is just blabla to keep the waffle board (=github issues) clean.
    Keeping it clean means also any eventual competitive or confidential information about business models won't go public before its time (if ever needed to...). Also, contradictory information (I can rethink ways of doing things technically, for instance) does not go into github, that can confuse developers assigned.
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    In the other hand, what @pietrosperoni says can make sense since we are very few, it could distract and it is hard to "remember" to move from issues to chat or vice-versa (if someone opens an issue that should be discussed before getting ready).
    Anyway I think a central chat room that can link to issues on github is a very good management tool (either in 2 rooms, one for each project, or a single room for the organization).
    Alexander Praetorius
    @serapath
    keeping things "confidential" is not an issue, because gitter and waffle are both private, if the github repository is, which it can, once you pay, put i do not see the purpose of private repositories anyway
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    yes @serapath I meant to say that posting "chat" on publig github repo issues could disclose thoughts that one may otherwise or eventually wanted to keep "secret" for a while (think registering a domain name and when you decide to do it someone else did it... it's a silly example I know...). But cleaning the issues of inconclusive chatting might be the best benefit of gitter. Waffle.io is pretty good to organize work.
    Alexander Praetorius
    @serapath
    if the repo is private, the chat is private, if the repo is public, the chat is public
    Pietro Speroni
    @pietrosperoni
    I think you are very optimistic in saying that metagovernment works like that. What I observe is that there are not enough people (me included) that are interested in moving the stuff to the "truth" place. And as such that becomes neglected. This kind of structure works for bigger groups but when we have only 5-10 people it probably does not work.
    Alexander Praetorius
    @serapath

    yes. i agree, its more a "wish", not so much a reality, but given better "automation" its possible. the gitter chat and waffle board will not work for a large audience or the general public :-) ...but GITHUB as such, with all its repositories, easy forks and pull requests for merges ... each repository eventually augmented with tools like "gitter" or "waffle" are an infrastructure that actually works for a large audience.
    There are github repositories that include all the german laws and for all kinds of information their are "non programming code" related repositories that are used by the community.

    github as a whole is far from perfect, but it created a reality which's practice is better then everything else i know :-) i think a lot of ideas should be copied from github and maybe github could be even used as a "backend" or "infrastructure" :-)

    waffle uses "github issues" and the chat is independent, but all the "notifications" are synced.
    maybe vilfredo can use GIT in general and GITHUB in particular (regarding a prototype) ...as a backend
    GIT is a "decentralised file system" (that could have proposals - think: repositories), which can be easily FORKED and commented on... the repositories which represent "proposals" can have a specific file structure, and a "web interface", using something like "JSGIT" (https://github.com/creationix/js-git) to interact with it
    ...i think that approach is worth thinking about, because it instantly would get vilfredo of the ground when it comes to "technical infrastructure" and because git is open source, there are tons of alternative git providers and it can be relatively easily "self hosted", so it will not create a hard dependency on GITHUB :-)
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    I find value on gitter exactly because all this chat would be inside some issue created for another scope. It could help keep "focus" on working issues.
    vvorski
    @vvorski
    Yes. versioning system as a backend makes sense for many, many applications. Perhaps vilfredo as well...
    also in the long-run vilfredo should work with not just full-proposals but paragraphs, updates to existing documents, etc.
    laws are tens to hundreds of pages long, even the company process docs I write are a few pages long so we want to work on them in parts
    vvorski
    @vvorski
    This message was deleted
    Alexander Praetorius
    @serapath
    many of them are backed by a git repository and all it takes to reference them in something that you are currently working on is writing the statement: "require('modulename');"
    i think, the reason, that most repositories are big is, because its a lot of hassle to make a lot of repositories for one specific project and interlink them, but with nodejs in javascript-landia or npm-landia, it became easy :-)
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    wow... that seems a complete rewrite of how Vilfredo's proposal system works. Very innovative and leverages git's versioning system to scale on proposals with hundreds of pages. We are very far from this. Surely it makes for a great funding proposal (@pietrosperoni) and technical challenge (@derekpa). We could look at this approach when we'll need to talk about the proposal-drafting-writing process.
    Giovani Spagnolo
    @giovanisp
    relates to #70 ... BTW.
    vvorski
    @vvorski
    btw. regarding funding a project I am helping a bit just got money from http://www.fi-ware.org/fiware-accelerator-programme/
    I think there is lots of opportunity to get money from there