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Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
@amysews All merged, they were perfect :)
Pardon me for repeating this in different chat rooms, but I've created an issue to centralize the practical details of organizing our contributor call this weekend: freesewing/freesewing#515
It includes a link to a Doodle to help us pick a time for a call.
I've also updated the blog post with a link to this issue so everyone can get on the same page.
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock

Update: The FreeSewing contributor call is scheduled for Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 16:00 UTC. Which is:

Los Angeles: 09:00
Chicago: 11:00
New York: 12:00
São Paulo: 13:00
London: 17:00
Paris: 18:00
Johannesburg: 18:00
Moscow: 19:00
Mumbai: 21:30
Hong Kong: 00:00 on Sunday, September 6, 2020
Tokyo: 01:00 on Sunday, September 6, 2020
Sydney: 02:00 on Sunday, September 6, 2020

It was tied for most votes with the same hour on Sunday, but I figured that perhaps people were willing to stay up a bit later on a Saturday than on a Sunday - Or wake up a bit earlier on a Saturday than on a Sunday :)

To be clear: There was no time slot that fitted everyone. This was the one that worked for most people.

gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Apologies if I previously mentioned this and was given the rationale for why freesewing patterns don't conform to my expectations. :grimacing: Can we go with convention and mark the back part of the armscye and the back armhole with double notches rather than a single notch? Also, the front piece is usually printed with the armscye to the left and the back piece printed to the right. Not that we would want to be needlessly bound by convention... but I do have memories sewing things together backwards because I mistook what was what.
Stoffsuchti
@stoffsuchti
In the germanic regions the armhole on the front has two nodges (near to each other) and the back one.
nutation
@nutation
Maybe a welcome guide about how free sewing similar and different to standard patterns and processes?
A kind of what’s the same and what is different
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Ahh... so it would produce more confusion rather than less. Oh, well. The little round marks used here are different. So yes, @nutation , a "guide to our patterns" sounds like a good idea.
Stoffsuchti
@stoffsuchti
And the explanation of the nodges and other signalations of the pattern should be printed on the pattern, good visible on on of the bigger peaces, so you have ist under your hands when you are going to cut the fabric
Like the explanations for the special markings you can find on paper maps 🗺
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
At least one if not more person on the Contributor Call expressed interest in writing pattern instructions and/or documentation. Here's a good place to start.
nutation
@nutation
Yay
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
that person was Genevieve who has since backed out (see message in the help room)
Ugh, that was supposed to be a reply to:
At least one if not more person on the Contributor Call expressed interest in writing pattern instructions and/or documentation.
But it seems that I need coffee
Here's a good place to start.
I disagree because its already written: https://freesewing.org/docs/about/patterns/notation/
I ferl it would be better to start with yhe missing docs
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
As for single or double notches, it is rather laborious to place a notch on the sleevecap (for example). Because it's made of multiple joined bezier curves, so you need to figure out what curve it falls on, or perhaps it happens to fall exactly on a point where two curves are joint
Doing that twice jusy for notation purposes serms madness
From the docs I linked to above:

In electromagnetism, a ⊙ symbol is used to indicate a flow of current coming towards you (to the front), whereas ⊗ is used for a current moving away from you (to the back).

You can also think of an arrow. When an arrow flies towards you, you see its tip (⊙). When an arrow flies away from you, you see its fletches (⊗).

As you can see, fnts even have a glyph for this 😃
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
I hope that explains why I decided to do it like this.
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Thanks for the explanation on the symbols. Somehow the patterns/notation page escaped my attention. As @stoffsuchti suggests above, having a guide to the notation visible at the pattern cutting stage sounds helpful. What do you all think of having a boilerplate "legend" box on the pattern--perhaps on the tiler's cover sheet?
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
I worked on building a t-shirt pattern for womenswear over the long weekend till I was bleary, and got to the point of having a paper pattern cut out to test run it for me. I wouldn't say it's totally finished, and I simply did some "post printout hacking" to create the V-neck rather than actually code it. I am in that phase where I can still convince myself it will be glorious. :blush: I may be able to cut fabric and stitch it together today.
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
What do you all think of having a boilerplate "legend" box on the pattern--perhaps on the tiler's cover sheet?
See: https://gitter.im/freesewing/development?at=5eb996ff496be6031df6f193

TLDR:

Adding any sort of text to the coverpage involves writing C code that in turn outputs PostScript code. In addition, PostScript (like SVG) does not handle flowed text. So you have to determine where lines should break/wrap and so on. It seems a lot of work for limited benefits. Not to mention that you have to program in C, which is not the typical profile of people who contribute to FreeSewing

Sorry for being a downer :|
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Indeed, we need something uplifting. The coffee is especially good this morning. I have some new French Roast that is nicely dark but not "over cooked". :relaxed: In my family, we call it "the dreaded optimism gene," and I seem to have inherited multiple copies. I don't give up. At some point, the tiler will get some attention and maybe @woutervdub will be inspired to take on the issue, or maybe someone else will have the required skills and help.
Wouter van Wageningen
@woutervdub
We can add all sorts of pages to the generated output. It will not be all that easy, specifically figuring out where things will have to go, and how to do the make up. It would need to be on a separate page(s)
Of course, this requires developing some way to pass information between these two systems.
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Passing info between them, even when its a static "legend" block?
Would adding a "notation block" like our measurement block be a better alternative?
Wouter van Wageningen
@woutervdub
Nothing is static forever. We could decide on a "legend" block now, and hard-code that. But then sometime in the future we would need to go back to the Tiler to change the modified "legend" block. It's bad design to have some utility that does a very specific task do something completely unrelated.

Would adding a "notation block" like our measurement block be a better alternative?

Any block we would add in the tiler will have the same concerns. We'd need to define an API between the tiler and the rest to pass the information, and somehow we need to figure out how to present that information through the tiler. Since the tiler needs to be able to handle all sorts of paper sizes, this is not trivial.

gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
@woutervdub Forgive me if it sounds impertinent to ask if "this is not trivial" means you think it's not worth the trouble? At some point, are there are multiple things connected to the tiler that need to be revisited?
Wouter van Wageningen
@woutervdub
It just means that it is a lot more work than it seems like. The tiler now has no idea how long of a line of text fits on a page. And moreover, it has no way of calculating how long a line of text is. So there are a lot of things that would need to be developed in order to make this work.
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Is there a way I could help or make it easier to accomplish? The glory is in the difficult things. If just anybody could build wonderful made-to-measure patterns to download on PDFs, they would have done it decades ago. The work of the tiler is required for every pattern, so it's obviously central to everything.
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
The current backend tiler is merely a thin wrapper around the tiler CLI binary. So funneling data to that is not obvious because you'd have to turn it into something you can pass safely as a command line parameter. A more future proof method would be to build a proper tiler API that does not rely on our C tiler but instead does something more modern.
Jonathan Craig
@IAmTheBlurr
Hey everyone. New here. Everyone calls me Blurr. Just learned about the project. Joost has been doing some great stuff; we spoke earlier today and I thought I'd join the Gitter channels and introduce myself.
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
Hi Blurr :wave:
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Welcome Blurr! Are you interested in more in the coding side, the sewing pattern side or both?
Jonathan Craig
@IAmTheBlurr
You could say I'm interested in both. I'm a systems architect with a focus on automation, interfaces, mathematics, and a few other subjects, mostly software but some hardware too. I also went to a fashion design school a few years ago too, mostly out of curiosity about patterns and how sizes work.
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
@IAmTheBlurr IMO, there's little more motivating that curiosity. When your curiosity leads you to questions, ask. :smile:
Jonathan Craig
@IAmTheBlurr
Rabbitholes within rabbitholes lol!
Within portals to n-dimensional hyperspace
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
I just realized that not everyone might be following the ongoing issues on github, but after the community team call, they've setup shop here: https://discord.gg/YDV4GvU
We're supposed to migrated in the (near) future, but in the meanwhile, you are welcome to put on your early adopter hat and join :)
Jonathan Craig
@IAmTheBlurr
Good call on switching to Discord