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Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
Adding the missing measurements to the warning sounds like a great plan, until you have 16 people all missing all 11 measurements and now you're staring at a wall of warning :)
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77

@joostdecock When I noticed your post saying you planned to conjure a t-shirt pattern this weekend, I thought it would be fun to make it a "T-Shirt Challenge Weekend" sort of thing. Indeed, I've been thinking a lot about producing a t-shirt that could be used as a base for some easy modifications. As far as I can tell, you can produce these patterns with your eyes closed and maybe with one hand tied behind your back. You make it look easy. My method as been mostly (trial + error)^10. A t-shirt is on my list, but not for this weekend.

You can tell me how I've gone awry and wasted my time because I've taken a crazy approach, but actually, some things are starting to make sense and to actually work. My theory has been to start with the standard fitting shell used by a group of the major pattern makers and use their measurements to essentially reverse-engineer their fitting model. The general expectation is that there's only about 10% ease built into a fitting shell, so the leap from measurements to pattern should be easier than the typical "design" pattern.

You don't have to know how many iterations I've done. <g> Several approaches really didn't work. I've had to learn stuff on the coding/application side, too. It's not yet perfect, but not too far off.

My method has been to attach a large gridded cutting map to the wall behind the bathroom door. I know how to use an electric drill and wood screws. I taped my pattern piece to the grid and marked seam lines. Then I measured a lot. And a lot more.

image.png

I came up with a strategy of setting a height(h) (based on HPShoulder to waist) and width(w) (based on full bust/chest)--kind of the general "box" like the tutorial. I set the CFNeckline derived form the neck measurement (as a cirumference) and radius, then derived the HPShoulder similarly, then applied the sholder slope, then the apex/bust point, then the darts, then the waist at the sideseam, then up the side and the armscye.

From the overlay of the pattern over my last print-out, I can see the dart is just a ~quarter of an inch high and my upper armscye needs some tweaking. The measurements have been from the pattern envelope and the pattern company "model" So next, I'll input their other sizes to validate that my pattern scales appropriately. And then, I'll change the "cup size" of the pattern--the standard models all assume a "B" cup.

I'm just figuring this out as I go along. Am I doing this the hard way or the wrong way or what?

Why didn't you just tell me I should start by making a pattern for a hat or a tote bag instead of something that is really supposed to fit. %) It would have been a lot easier.

image.png
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Thanks to the (comparatively) simple process of setting points and calling "curve" functions, we don't have to actually calculate Bezier curves here, but it's true that they are totally fascinating. I couldn't restrain myself from doing some additional research on them, and I found this interesting article:
Despite the funny URL, the title of it is "Bezier Curves and Picasso". The YouTube video (titled "Splitting a Cubic Bezier Curve") is fun. Long ago I took classes where I had to do homework to write out proofs like that... it's more fun to watch him do it. :)
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
Am I doing this the hard way or the wrong way or what?
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
@DocSpencer77 I don't believe there is a right or wrong way to further your understanding of things. In my experience, a learning process is deeply personal, so you do you. If you enjoy tumbling down a rabbit hole of bezier curves and polynomials, then by all means, enjoy the ride. You may feel that perhaps you're not making much progress on how to tackle a pattern, but all this understanding of basic principles is really valuable.
If you like beziers, I can recommendA primer on bezier curves : https://pomax.github.io/bezierinfo/
It's a free online book. Perhaps not to read cover to cover, but a great resource to refer to when you're curious about how exactly things are calculated.
The author, Pomax, is also the author of the bezier-js package on NPM, which is the library @freesewing/core uses under the hood to do its bezier juggling.
Why didn't you just tell me I should start by making a pattern for a hat or a tote bag instead of something that is really supposed to fit.
There's a reason the tutorial is a baby bib πŸ˜‚
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
The hardest part is that you need to know a bit about pattern design, a bit of programming, and learn the FreeSewing API.
You're not wrong when you say I can do this with one hand tied behind my back. But I've been doing this a long time too,so you shouldn't be discouraged.
On the plus side, I am not a great programmer, nor am I a great designer. But by combining both skills, I can think hmm, I'd like to have some new T-shirts and have coded a design for them the next day.
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
That being said, I still haven't cracked the puzzle of fitting a chest with breasts πŸ™ˆ so cut yourself some slack πŸ˜€
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
There's a reason the tutorial is a baby bib πŸ˜‚
Hey... I redid the bib several times before I really made it work right and (sort of) understood what was going on! :smirk: Having had breasts attached to my person for decades, and having grown up sewing since childhood, I hope I've figured out a few things about fitting a chest with breasts. But, still, I know I have a huge amount still to learn.
If you like beziers, I can recommendA primer on bezier curves : https://pomax.github.io/bezierinfo/
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Yes, I had started with that excellent resource (it's linked to the docs somewhere, too, right?). In fact, I did an interim step where I drew the curves with a Bezier "Pen Tool" so that I would understand, ~sort of , what kind of curves I needed. I'm going to go back and analyze Brian and Breanna some (again). I'm not doing everything the same way, so forgive me (in advance) for my differences of opinion. At some point, I (again) need to sew something.
amysews
@amysews
Hi! I've done some pull requests (I got curious!) I have no idea if I've gone about them in the way you expect so please tell me if I should have done it differently :)
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
thank you @amysews that's really great. Allow me to have a coffee and then I'll have a look πŸ˜‰
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
@amysews All merged, they were perfect :)
Pardon me for repeating this in different chat rooms, but I've created an issue to centralize the practical details of organizing our contributor call this weekend: freesewing/freesewing#515
It includes a link to a Doodle to help us pick a time for a call.
I've also updated the blog post with a link to this issue so everyone can get on the same page.
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock

Update: The FreeSewing contributor call is scheduled for Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 16:00 UTC. Which is:

Los Angeles: 09:00
Chicago: 11:00
New York: 12:00
SΓ£o Paulo: 13:00
London: 17:00
Paris: 18:00
Johannesburg: 18:00
Moscow: 19:00
Mumbai: 21:30
Hong Kong: 00:00 on Sunday, September 6, 2020
Tokyo: 01:00 on Sunday, September 6, 2020
Sydney: 02:00 on Sunday, September 6, 2020

It was tied for most votes with the same hour on Sunday, but I figured that perhaps people were willing to stay up a bit later on a Saturday than on a Sunday - Or wake up a bit earlier on a Saturday than on a Sunday :)

To be clear: There was no time slot that fitted everyone. This was the one that worked for most people.

gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Apologies if I previously mentioned this and was given the rationale for why freesewing patterns don't conform to my expectations. :grimacing: Can we go with convention and mark the back part of the armscye and the back armhole with double notches rather than a single notch? Also, the front piece is usually printed with the armscye to the left and the back piece printed to the right. Not that we would want to be needlessly bound by convention... but I do have memories sewing things together backwards because I mistook what was what.
Stoffsuchti
@stoffsuchti
In the germanic regions the armhole on the front has two nodges (near to each other) and the back one.
nutation
@nutation
Maybe a welcome guide about how free sewing similar and different to standard patterns and processes?
A kind of what’s the same and what is different
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Ahh... so it would produce more confusion rather than less. Oh, well. The little round marks used here are different. So yes, @nutation , a "guide to our patterns" sounds like a good idea.
Stoffsuchti
@stoffsuchti
And the explanation of the nodges and other signalations of the pattern should be printed on the pattern, good visible on on of the bigger peaces, so you have ist under your hands when you are going to cut the fabric
Like the explanations for the special markings you can find on paper maps πŸ—Ί
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
At least one if not more person on the Contributor Call expressed interest in writing pattern instructions and/or documentation. Here's a good place to start.
nutation
@nutation
Yay
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
that person was Genevieve who has since backed out (see message in the help room)
Ugh, that was supposed to be a reply to:
At least one if not more person on the Contributor Call expressed interest in writing pattern instructions and/or documentation.
But it seems that I need coffee
Here's a good place to start.
I disagree because its already written: https://freesewing.org/docs/about/patterns/notation/
I ferl it would be better to start with yhe missing docs
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
As for single or double notches, it is rather laborious to place a notch on the sleevecap (for example). Because it's made of multiple joined bezier curves, so you need to figure out what curve it falls on, or perhaps it happens to fall exactly on a point where two curves are joint
Doing that twice jusy for notation purposes serms madness
From the docs I linked to above:

In electromagnetism, a βŠ™ symbol is used to indicate a flow of current coming towards you (to the front), whereas βŠ— is used for a current moving away from you (to the back).

You can also think of an arrow. When an arrow flies towards you, you see its tip (βŠ™). When an arrow flies away from you, you see its fletches (βŠ—).

As you can see, fnts even have a glyph for this πŸ˜ƒ
Joost De Cock
@joostdecock
I hope that explains why I decided to do it like this.
gaylyndie
@DocSpencer77
Thanks for the explanation on the symbols. Somehow the patterns/notation page escaped my attention. As @stoffsuchti suggests above, having a guide to the notation visible at the pattern cutting stage sounds helpful. What do you all think of having a boilerplate "legend" box on the pattern--perhaps on the tiler's cover sheet?