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Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
Not too much I can write about using independent sources, but it is getting better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Gaphor
Xander982
@Xander982
Either have to become friends with a Wikipedia editor or go get some press! Don't you have systems engineer organization buddies/
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
@Xander982 Thanks for the report, could you post your gaphor file? Maybe attach on https://gist.github.com/
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
Hey all, I don't have a speaker for Michigan Python this week. Do you think that showing how to model a complex system using Gaphor would be Python-related enough? Or I could show how to build a Gaphor plugin possibly. I could also do something more general / beginner friendly, like how to install Python in Windows and setup a virtualenv
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
What's the audience like? Mostly web-devs? data science? Interested in GUI apps?
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
pretty good mix, probably more data science than anything else just because of how Python is being used, but we have had topics on all of those things
Xander982
@Xander982
I think that people would be more interested in building something. I feel like people did not like an overview of things. But I think that if you could show me some of the intricacies, that a ten or fifteen minute demo of how to make a sequence. diagram or state diagram would be helpful. I think that design and modeling is important for programmers as a "soft" skill. And I think more importantly that Gaphor needs video demos equivalent to these. https://youtu.be/pCK6prSq8aw
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
@Xander982 Ya, that video is really nice! What should we build for that part of the talk?
Xander982
@Xander982
Whatever shows off the power of the software the most or just a sequence diagram.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
I would take an example system, and show how to use the different diagrams to build it up by example. I guess I was wondering if I need to build something by example in Python
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
ok, https://michiganpython.org is doing Gaphor this month
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
If you want to keep it technical you can also focus on entry points. IIRC that's also how pytest plugins work too.
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
Nice talk. Good to see there's some discussion taking place as well :)
I noticed all elements in the tree view are bold. It used to be that only diagrams are bold, and other elements have a normal font weight. Looks like I introduced an issue somewhere :see_no_evil:
I can add it to the tutorials section of gaphor.org. It makes for a nice introduction. :+1:
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
These are the take-aways for me:
  • We need a tool to resolve merge conflicts (gaphorresolve?)
  • Can put more emphasis on the extensibility
  • maybe create a plugin repo, so plugins can also be installed when installing on windows/mac/flatpak
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
Good idea to put it in the tutorials. I would like to also work on improving swimlane support as well.
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
Yes, the current implementation is not ideal.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
Most of the commercial tools use a SVN type lock / checkout system, i think if we had an awesome visual merge we would have something much nicer
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
Indeed. We can create 2 models based on a merge conflict (<<<< / ===== / >>>>>), load those and diff all objects.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
the trick is filtering visually out the key differences so the user isn’t overwhelmed by 1000 xml small tweaks. This requires so smarts in the compare
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
We can start with a CLI.
Create a list of differences.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
MagicDraw shows all differences in their visual merge, and it makes it almost impossible to use
ya i like the idea of starting simple
@Xander982 also suggested that we create some awesome starting templates. We have a good starting template at Ford and it makes all the difference. Xander pointed out that new users might be overwhelmed with what to do first when creating a model
and i think we we talked about over email showing all relationships in the tree view will help users realize this isnt just a diagramming tool
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
Starting templates sounds like a good plan. We can probably not create the initial empty model, but offer a dialog instead.

and i think we we talked about over email showing all relationships in the tree view will help users realize this isnt just a diagramming tool

The editor did respond?

BTW. in the gaphor repo (tag 1.0.0) is a script utils/compare.py, which does compare two models. It's better to rewrite the whole thing probably.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
No, no response from the editor of the website
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
That's lame :(
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
I worked on replacing his website with wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SysML_tools
:smile:
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
We got more feedback on LinkedIn about it not being apparent that there is a data model. This time the feedback was about it not being apparent that relationships are only allowed to be glued to valid elements. I think we should create a more apparent drop zone around the element when you hover over it and highlight it based on whether it is valid or not, and only let the relationship to be dropped on the diagram if it has a valid relationship. Maybe we even need something fun like the VSCode Power Mode extension that shows fireworks when a valid connection is made :fireworks:
This would be a change in Gaphas right? I can submit an Issue
Arjan Molenaar
@amolenaar
Something like: when I drag the end of an association, all possible connection candidates are highlighted.
Or highlight only the candidate when the handle ‘glues’ to the item while dragging it.
I think we can solve this within Gaphor.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
I think highlight the whole element when yoi hover over it
Xander982
@Xander982
So I am downloading and opening the exact same file from Google Drive to a PC with gaphor 1.2.0rc2 and Mac with gaphor 2.0. PC is able to open. Mac coughs on it and says that it cannot open that type of file. Is MacOS/safari/google drive corrupting the file extension on the download? Finder > Get Info says extension .gaphor and says it is a Gaphor document. Finder correctly tries to open the file with Gaphor. I'm not sure why the gist has it as an html document.
This is the header of the same document opened with MacOS TextEdit:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

<gaphor xmlns="http://gaphor.sourceforge.net/model" version="3.0" gaphor-version="1.2.0rc2">

@danyeaw Can we do a call tomorrow to figure out what I can do to help re: all my suggestions (video, templates)?
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
That looks better like xml now
Sure, either in the afternoon after 1pm or in the evening would be best for me
Xander982
@Xander982
I guess 1p to give me a shot at working on stuff after talking tomorrow.
Dan Yeaw
@danyeaw
cool!