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sebbu2
@sebbu2
it's not, it might just be shorted code (on your end, if you don't include the framework size)
also, they might do the portability wrapper (browsers, desktop vs mobile, mouse vs touch, etc...) in your place
Roger Ostrander
@rostrander_gitlab
@JomoPipi So basically a framework gets you two things: (1) it does a lot of work for you, so you don't have to write e.g. Yet Another Component Binding System, and (2) It gives you a common language with other developers. Good developers will be able to pick up your code if it's well-written, etc, but they'll essentially have to learn how your system works from scratch, whereas if you've written something in React, then another developer who already knows react is a good way to understanding how it works.
And, as sebbu2 points out, the framework often does stuff you haven't thought about (e.g. browser portability, i18n support, etc). I mentally included that in (1) above but it's a good thing to mention separately.
Downsides are that you have to learn the framework and it'll take up extra KB and be slower than a purpose-built script (because a framework has to be generic, and you can optimize a specific script for its specific needs)
sebbu2
@sebbu2
the disadvantages is that some things are forced for you, so it limits your possibilities
ie, if there's several good implementations choices for something, and your usecase requires one of the two, the framework might have choosen the other, and you can't do away with it using the framework
or some object is meant to be used one way, and not some other way, which should theorically be possible, but isn't because it wasn't a priority
Roger Ostrander
@rostrander_gitlab
That's also a good point - I've done a bit of Angular work and while I like the framework, it doesn't really play nice with things that aren't angular. Usually there's a library that makes it fit in (e.g. ng-bootstrap) but not always and so your options are limited if that's the case.
sebbu2
@sebbu2
i call that a bad point
also, the libs might not say their limits
i once had to work with OLD dates, so i searched a good calendar library that supports several calendar formats... it didn't supported the old calendars correctly, it just supported the formats (ie, division of the year), but not "year 1 of calendar 1 is year 50 of calendar 2"
it wasn't written anywhere
JomoPipi
@JomoPipi
Well, usually everything I do works on all browsers except ie
basically the root of my "framework" is

const D = x => document.getElementById(x)
const E = x => document.createElement(x)
idk.. I feel fine with it for now, so until I feel like I need something better, I guess I'll stick with my ways lol
dimtabu
@taburetkin
there is mac/win/linux also.
and at this point es6 support is pretty variing
JomoPipi
@JomoPipi
it works fine on mac, idk about linux but it should
dimtabu
@taburetkin
so, production ready application still should be es5
JomoPipi
@JomoPipi
I guess... I might learn some framework then lol
Frankjayfield
@Frankjayfield
Can anyone help me with laravel cms?
Julian Gonggrijp
@jgonggrijp
@JomoPipi if you find jQuery and Underscore/Lodash somewhat convincing, (those are not frameworks but toolkits), then Backbone might be an interesting "transitional" framework for you. It takes care of the MVC stuff but it doesn't burden you with very rigid opinions like most other frameworks. It's also very lightweight because it defers most of the work to jQuery and Underscore and layers only a bit of structure on top of it.
JomoPipi
@JomoPipi
jQuery was interesting for like a week but then I learned you can do everything it does with vanilla
and I liked that better
Julian Gonggrijp
@jgonggrijp
Well, in my opinion, jQuery still has something to offer compared with vanilla. But even if you don't share that opinion, there are also options for using Backbone without jQuery.
Philip Durbin
@pdurbin
@jgonggrijp what do you use in jQuery that is awkward or not fun using standard APIs?
Julian Gonggrijp
@jgonggrijp

@pdurbin jQuery is full of shorthands that vanilla lacks. For example $('p.tooltip').toggle() would be about five times longer to type in vanilla and also less readable.

$.ajax is much nicer to work with and more portable than XMLHttpRequest. There is fetch nowadays (which was clearly inspired on $.ajax), but it has fewer options and you have to include a polyfill if you want to use it seriously in production. jQuery can act as a polyfill for many things.

Then, there are the animations which are basically extras and which play very nicely with Bootstrap. You could implement them yourself in vanilla, but it would amount to reinventing half of jQuery.

Admittedly, the size is significant. On the bright side, 70% of the top million sites use jQuery, so if you embed it from a CDN, your visitor most likely already has it in their cache.

Philip Durbin
@pdurbin
Yeah, I guess I was mostly thinking that fetch is nice. Good point about toggle.
dimtabu
@taburetkin
i have to say, when you starting to do something in vanilla js you always ends with reinventing some well known wheels. and your wheel not well tested as existing one.
so, its always good to know what already exist and use it instead of doing your own.
there may be a case when you really need "own casino with black jack and ladies" but this is very rare case.
AmberSaber
@AmberSaber
Does gitter have a rpm package?
roar090
@roar090
Does gitter have a command-line client?
Philip Durbin
@pdurbin
Well, you can connect from weechat to Gitter's IRC gateway. That's what I do and I love it. :)
Christian Anderson
@techonomics69
hi
Felipe Catão do Nascimento
@FelipeKatao
Please, who can follow me in GitHub? I write one project in Python one new framework, and this project and my profile need plus one follow, for I can participate one conpetition, who could help , I thanks : https://github.com/FelipeKatao
Mohamed
@Farjallah_gitlab
Hi developers, i am looking for solution to create web application that ask many questions to students and they answear... is there any good idea on how to create and import questions from document( word,pdf...) to database ?
LlamaFamah
@LlamaFamah
hello everyone, I was wondering if you had some ideas for simple coding projects to tinker around with. Python and java are my strong suits.
Julian Gonggrijp
@jgonggrijp
@LlamaFamah small challenges, though not always easy: Project Euler.
LlamaFamah
@LlamaFamah
@jgonggrijp Looks super cool! Thanks!
Julian Gonggrijp
@jgonggrijp
Welcome.
Josebuendia
@Josebuendia
What are the best ways/tutorials on databases online?
LlamaFamah
@LlamaFamah
@Josebuendia are you using SQL? This may help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXV3zeQKqGY
queenk77
@queenk77
I am trying to run a simulation for openshs (smart home simulator) from gitbash but it doesn't recognize primusrun command can anyone tell me how can i run it, please?
I am new in programming
yerblich
@yerblich
hi i am new to react and i am trying to understand, i understand that react (or any frontend framework) fetches data via ajax requests which does not require a page reload , however i see plenty of websites using react but still reload the page for some requests , why would that be necessary if it can always be done through an ajax request ?
Julian Gonggrijp
@jgonggrijp
@yerblich It could be for many reasons. Perhaps the next page doesn't belong to the same application, or perhaps the programmer couldn't figure out the routing and ended up reloading the page. React doesn't handle routing for you, so it depends on the knowledge and skills of the developer how much they can avoid page reloads. Also, there can be design goals that encourage or even enforce a page reload, such as changing the localization or SAML authentication.
yerblich
@yerblich
@jgonggrijp thank you . Also after some research it seems that it is also for when the front end bundles become very large it is best to segment the components into separate so called apps so that initial page load is not too slow
sebbu2
@sebbu2
wine
John Garrick
@johngarrickmc_twitter
Hi can anyone help with regard to master table customizer of ADP recruitment?
We have customizable forms
but are being asked for the array length and index
Roger Ostrander
@rostrander_gitlab
@johngarrickmc_twitter This is more of a software developer channel; you're probably in the wrong place for ADP technical support