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  • Jun 13 2019 08:02
    @jaspervdm banned @matrixbot
  • May 06 2018 21:29
    User @ignopeverell unbanned @maesitos
  • May 06 2018 00:41
    @ignopeverell banned @maesitos
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
cool, i'm not sure there's anything visible yet though. this summer we have an intern working on wallet code that can generate MW transactions on top of the current elements codebase (and there is no blockchain using this codebase, separately i understand we expect to launch one in the next couple weeks but idk the actual timeline)
then separately we're funding tim ruffing to work on a valueshuffle implementation, but that also started extremely recently
Dan Gershony
@dangershony
Right so MW transactions are not in the wild yet, I'll keep an eye on the planned release.
I am getting myself familiar with the whitepaper and some of the grin implementation, as time allows we are so busy, I'd like to see MW get more traction and see how we/I can contribute.
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
not bad at all for a first draft
Fernando Lobato
@fernandolobato
Am gona be available during to weekend to work on it, so any suggestions or ideas, am all ears :)
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
I'm a little torn as to what to do with mimblewimble vs grin, seems that there should be a technology page that lists implementations/related projects too
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
ignopeverell: i like what's written re mimblewimble vs grin
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
@apoelstra that's fine, I was just wondering if we should have another site/page somewhere that's more on mimblewimble itself and lists implementation
maybe premature
@fernandolobato the "decentralize" section looks a little weird, stuck against the characteristics section
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
ah, yeah, that would be great. but might be premature, i've been talking about doing MW on elements but there's no concrete progress done until very recently
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
@fernandolobato if you can make the github link a little more prominent as well, that'd be cool
maybe in the community section, you can have the github, gitter and mailing list links with icons
Fernando Lobato
@fernandolobato
For sure, I can do that and give some air to the decentralize section
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
@apoelstra I reserved mimwim.com/org/net some time ago just in case (somebody had already taken mimblewimble) if we wanted to do something with it
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
oh, awesome ignopeverell
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
@fernandolobato and if there's any possibility to make that list less of a big blob, that'd be great
maybe some icon for each item and more of a tile layout instead of a bulleted thing?
@fernandolobato and thanks for the work, it's great! don't worry too much about the text itself, I can edit that easily after merging
Fernando Lobato
@fernandolobato
Perfect, will give you guys a heads up during the weekend. It's my pleasure, I really like this project
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
thanks!
lkblkb
@lkblkb
@fernandolobato I do English writing for a living. Let me know if I can help with proofreading/copy writing!
I can also access people who can do a Chinese version 😁
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
@lkblkb a Chinese version would be cool after this
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
apoelstra: why reusing keys is much more dangerous in MW than in BTC?
reusing keys is very important if you want to publish a well-known address and keep receiving payments in it, without the need to tell your peers to update the address everytime (e.g. Bitwage)
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
you basically can't do that in MW
and for privacy reasons you sholudn't be doing that anyway
anyway if you do reuse keys your spending transactions could be vulnerable to replay attacks
because outputs aren't connected to anything, there's no unique txid to reference them by, so if you make the same one twice, the original spending transaction can spend the second one
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
well, shit, why? cannot grin use a count like ETH does?
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
no, that wolud completely undermine the pruning that MW offers
and it's also a shitty idea for privacy
and it leads to weird things like transaction ordering mattering
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
isn't "transaction ordering mattering" needed anyway to avoid double spends?
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
no, i'm talking about ordering of otherwise-valid transactions
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
I see
then it's going to be a challenge for wallet developers
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
yes, it will be
such is life with MW
if you do everything via payment protocol it's not so bad, it's basically the same as bitcoin
but cold wallets are a bear
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
cannot the replay attacks be prevented seriously? adding a timestamp and making the transaction be valid only for some hours for example?
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
yes, if you put timeouts on transactions that would block replays. that's a really nasty solution, there's a reason bitcoin has endeavored to never make a mechanism that let a valid transaction become invalid (except doubl-spending it)
it basically makes every transaction non-reorg-safe, like coinbases are
and creates incentives for miner censorship in same cases
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
mmm
Andrew Poelstra
@apoelstra
it's also an incomplete solution if your payments aren't always very spaced out
Andres G. Aragoneses
@knocte
how about making it opt-in? for recurrent payments you use an address that has timelocks, but for the rest (change addresses), it's default and replayable