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  • Jun 13 2019 08:02
    @jaspervdm banned @matrixbot
  • May 06 2018 21:29
    User @ignopeverell unbanned @maesitos
  • May 06 2018 00:41
    @ignopeverell banned @maesitos
0xb100d
@0xb100d
@tromp do you think that there is more incentive to create a cryptonight asic/fpga that can cope with pow forks than there will be for grin?
because asic manufacturers should be working toward that right now then and we should be able to see some change to hashrate at some point indicating that hopefully
John Tromp
@tromp
should have similar incentives
Maria Shen
@mariashen

hey! I'm new here and want to better understand the implications of the newest PoW changes. Regarding this post that summarizes the effects of the changes (https://www.grin-forum.org/t/proof-of-work-update/713/27)

  1. Only GPU miners will be able to mine for the first 2 years, while the dual equihash + cuckoo cycle algorithms are in effect.
  2. After 2 years, the Grin team is assuming a decentralized ASIC marketplace. At that point, Grin switches over to cuckoo cycle only, which is very efficient for ASICs. Everyone will mine with ASICs, but this is not a concern because at that point, the ASIC market is “mature” and will be decentralized, allowing small miners to continue to mine grin.
  3. Assumption: the Grin team will extend the 2-year period as long as needed for the ASIC market to be “mature”.
  4. For GPU mining at start of mainnet, it makes sense to use 1080ti w/ 8GB memory

From the discussion above, it sounds like #3 is incorrect and 2 years will be the max that the 2 algorithm solution is supported.

#1 is also incorrect and some ASIC mining is expected in the first 2 years.

Is everything else still true?

John Tromp
@tromp
ASIC mining will go linearly from 10% to 100% over 2 years, while GPU mining goes from 90% to 0%. We cannot rule FPGA like devices gaining a foothold on latter. we assume some reasonable ASIC installed base and competition after 2 years
GPU PoW will be instantly verifiable and efficiently solvable in 8 GB
most likely:-)
Maria Shen
@mariashen
Wonderful -- thanks!

@tromp

most likely:-)

to clarify, this is for #4

Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
@mariashen correct
Maria Shen
@mariashen
thanks :)
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
sorry I meant to reply to that post but haven't had time yet
Maria Shen
@mariashen
no worries - appreciate the reply here
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
just curious, anyone knows which equihash params were chosen for BEAM?
maybe @valdok if you're still around?
Ignotus Peverell
@ignopeverell
heh, thanks, was too lazy to poke around the code myself
Yeastplume
@yeastplume
looks like their test/live params
John Tromp
@tromp
@ignopeverell i remember they planned on (120,4)
but those may turn out to be provisional
they thought picking params no-one else has reduces ASICs odds. but a single ASIC would likely handle multiple instances where n/(k+1) is fixed
so they wouldn't be essentially different from (144,5) and other alrd deployed
valdok
@valdok
We haven’t decided the parameters yet. In our current testnet the parameters are ridiculously easy, because it runs on a reference cpu miner, and our goal is to see how the difficulty adapts
Robert White (Vix)
@Rob-pw
https://github.com/scipr-lab/dizk, dizk.org, literature and implementation in Java of distributed zkSNARK proof system from a talk given today at http://www.zeroknowledge.fm/summit/ -- video https://youtu.be/4O6ZuqgDLnk?t=4280
hashmap
@hashmap
Might be related to governance discussion https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3243656
0xb100d
@0xb100d
very interesting will read today
how did you hear about this paper @hashmap
hashmap
@hashmap
@0xb100d it was all over my twitter, has just been published I think
hashmap
@hashmap
Some slides from Beam presentation today at Zero Knowledge Summit, I hope all slides will ve available soon. http://www.filedropper.com/beam
0xb100d
@0xb100d
"goods of value to smaller communities or “entrepreneurial public goods” where a small community has an idea for
a public good that is not widely understood at the time for funding. These may well receive no funding
from democracy; this is an important reason why most small communities are funded primarily by charity
or Capitalism rather than 1p1v [one person one vote]."
urza
@urza_cc_twitter
https://getmonero.org/2018/09/05/a-post-mortum-of-the-multiple-counting-bug-2018-09-05.html
This blog sets out the multiple counting bug, of which two variants existed. The goal of this blog post is to provide a detailed explanation of aforementioned bug, how it was used to exploit services, merchants, and exchanges, and how it was handled by the Monero (dev) community.
Aleksandar Avramov
@OpticFlowX
scary...
urza
@urza_cc_twitter
Indeed, but even more scary was the bug in all cryptonote currencies that allowed to create new coins from noting :)
https://getmonero.org/2017/05/17/disclosure-of-a-major-bug-in-cryptonote-based-currencies.html
Aleksandar Avramov
@OpticFlowX
"We patched it quite some time ago, and confirmed that the Monero blockchain had NEVER been exploited using this, but until the hard fork that we had a few weeks ago we were unsure as to whether or not the entire network had updated.
"Once we were certain that the network had updated, we notified all active and affected CryptoNote coins, including CryptoNote themselves, Bytecoin, Forknote, Boolberry, DashCoin, and DigitalNote."
0xb100d
@0xb100d
So neither vuln was actually used?
reading now
John Tromp
@tromp
the multiple counting one cannot be confirmed except by exchanges; it leaves no trace on chain
Aleksandar Avramov
@OpticFlowX
@0xb100d "Unfortunately, however, the severity of the bug was underestimated until (i) an exchange got exploited via a fork of Monero and (ii) a security researcher (jagerman) on HackerOne provided an elaborate report on how to utilize this bug to steal funds from exchanges."
0xb100d
@0xb100d
so someone hacked a fork
why not go for monero directly
dont know how I missed the first one
the one published today going to make price go down after it just had a couple good days lol
Aleksandar Avramov
@OpticFlowX
Probably it's worth to plan in advance how to deal with such bugs/exploits after Grin main net goes online...
0xb100d
@0xb100d
Monero did a secret update
probably only thing that could be done
Michalis Kargakis
@kargakis
is there any private channel in grin today for reporting vulnerabilities apart from PMing individual council members in the forum or via email?
0xb100d
@0xb100d
thats not a bad idea. could be a second mailing list or a special subforum for critical users like exchanges core devs etc
probably both for redundancy in case one goes down
jaspervdm
@jaspervdm
things like that still have to be figured out, for now its fine to just open an issue on GH