These are chat archives for highfidelity/hifi

11th
Nov 2014
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:16
faceshift $800-$1500 per year. Fuse $250-$1000 per year. Those are considerable barriers to entry, especially for assets that can be stolen and given away for free.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:19
The faceshift and fuse parts I understand. I'm not sure I follow point of assets as there's no asset controls implemented at this exceedingly early alpha stage so, few of us would be placing anything here that we care about distribution of outside our control. Once an asset control system is in place then one might be able to comment on third point's validity.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:24
Well, it will always be a concern no matter what asset control system is in place. And 99% of the time if a man can make it a man can break it, so hopefully it's a good one.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:25
It will at least have the advantage of some peer review : )
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:26
Yeah it will >:D
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:28
I rather like the idea of assets being encrypted objects that require some reasonably robust negotiation to decrypt along with sha256 asset signatures, steganograhpic marked images/sounds and cross checking. Done right any asset could be stored anywhere cutting down on time to fetch and distributing the asset distro load while maintaining maximal content security. As you say - it will never be perfect, but, it can be made at least non-trivial with a little thought and work.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:29
I was thinking the same thing.
I think we all learned our lessons with SL
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:30
I really even as a creator have zero problem with a purchaser having a local copy of something I sell them as long as they can not trivially modify it, reupload and sell as own.
We also need hierarchical permissions so we could, for instance, sell something as CMT but the "inheritor" of the objects would be restricted to a subset when they go on to transfer the object again.
Using encrypted distributed asset stores that would be part of the "getting a key" to use an object flow.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:33
Yeah I often wished for that in sl. It would also be nice to be able to sell "subscriptions" to content instead of selling it ouright
that might help with the ton of garbage that will be floating around years from now
outdated old assets
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:34
that and X number of copies etc - like I sell a 10 pack of something - I don't create 10 copies - the authorizer allows X copies
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:35
not to mention once something is created it can be sold forever, so market eventually reach their peak and then die out if theres nothing new to work with
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:35
well - as long as it's clear you're buying a license to use this object for X period of time, and I mean really really clear, I'd have no problem with that.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:36
or licensing limitations on others to sell your work as well, that way creators can go on being creators and marketers can go on being marketers.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:36
But I have stuff from 2003 SL I seldom rez anymore that I'd be pissed if it suddenly poofed cause I only rez it once every couple years when I get nostalgic :P
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:37
true but the marketplace is a junkyard. complete mess.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:37
Solution to that is to require relisting of items perhaps once a year or they expire.
Just have to say - yeah keep this listed.
That would end the crap people listen in 2009 and haven't bother with SL since other than to see if they have any L to convert.
*lsted
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:38
yeah people like me hahaha
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:39
or have "MP" be a link only to purchasing in world. With the presumably next to nothing cost to maintain a presence here it's not onerous to say sales all happen in world.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:41
well if all content was handled by the owner that would certainly be incentive to keep the file sizes down
maybe creators should have their own asset servers
and control them however they want
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:42
there should be nothing preventing them from doing so. Though to participate in the metaverse market they will have to at least minimally comply with standards.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:43
well people would be creating their own markets then
developing trusted markets and brands
like real life
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:43
I suppose you could look at that like buying from your own local country (your domain) vs buying from overseas.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:44
when we buy stuff in real life we give a lot of trust that what we are buying isnt going to poison us or fall apart in 2 days.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:44
I used to think that but after 30+ years of being an adult and buying crap I'm not so sure anymore. ; )
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:45
i dont see why virtual goods should be handle by any central authority, we dont see anything else being handled that way especially on the internet
any reason other than raking up a % for themselves anyway
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:46
I concur but the methods of securing assets must be at least a centralized standard and if I buy an asset from someone I expect that it won't be located on one server where, by hardware failure or intent, it and all content go poof.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:47
yeah people should at least be offered options
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:47
Short of knowing I'm buying something with a limited lifespan I don't expect my bits to wear out.
I suppose, end of day, with this being so open one can do pretty much anything they want. Have their own inventory control systems, sell for local currencies or something not tied to HiFi's currency etc.
but for it to traverse freely there will have to likely be some minimal centralization points.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:49
Well you might have somebody running a mmo who doesnt want their content all over the grid
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:49
I fully intend to lobby for content controls to recognize an only usable in domain with uuid X flag.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:49
yeah thats gotta be done
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:49
or everywhere but X. : )
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:50
encryption in everything
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:50
though that will be immutable once an item is sold. you can 't later decide I don't like domain X and now want to block it using my stuffs.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:51
well you should have the option to do so, if people get mad they can alway sdispute it somehow. we already have reallife laws in place for such events
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:51
yeah but what law do you and I fall under? Point of jurisdiction and all that.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:52
not any different than anything else on the internet
creators could implement their own security measures pretty easily i think, it isnt lsl we will be using
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:53
Which is why I refuse to buy much from outside my jurisdiction as it's unlikely enough I can do much in my own let alone some other countries.
True
It's complex stuff. It's great to have freedoms but without care the buyers can get really screwed over too. I have sympathy for the creator and the consumer having been screwed in both roles. haha
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:54
theres a lot of uncharted territory here, its exciting
even so i dont think draconian content controls are the answer
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:55
nope - nor do I but a robust authentication and theft detection tools would be great.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:55
i am sure linden labs doesnt care much for their gigantic database of junk they have to watch over forever
every single wooden block anybody ever made in sl
yeah for sure
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:56
meh - when you're buying data warehouse storage at petabye scales commercially it's a drop in the bucket compared to what it looks like when you're pricing out a few dozen terras.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:56
but even greater if there are third party options available as well
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:57
well, as an open system there's little stopping anyone from rolling their own ways other than it excluding you from being connected to the overall metaverse.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:57
right
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:58
you could roll your own full on custom system using this base tech with your own user registrations and economy if you wanted.
No different than using opensim there.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 03:58
true
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 03:58
And for some that will make sense.
It's all so near the start here - will be crazy fun to see where it goes. And unlike SL we at least have the ability to write some of the code that makes this happen and review what others are doing.
And if it goes where a majority dislike then it'll fork and move on or die.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 04:07
By the way omega, I am getting ready to set up my Ubuntu server. Thanks again for the write up.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:07
Sure thing! Glad it helped ;)
Jason Hawks
@nbq
Nov 11 2014 04:07
And I will be trying your scripts soon (<Coal)
got my account setup and just haven't had time to test a deploy yet
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:08
I had it running on Ubuntu via cloud but moved to my mac mini in a colo now that I got that all worked out.
Jason Hawks
@nbq
Nov 11 2014 04:11
which omega, you had a chance to try to compile interface on your mini yet? I tried today and its crashing on load, but compiles fine, even am using clang 5.1 instead of 6 and it had the same problem
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:11
never tried it on the mini - was lazy and used the prebuilt binaries there. I've compiled it all on Linux and Win 7 though.
I fear it would be painful to run interface on the mini over remote desktop haha
Jason Hawks
@nbq
Nov 11 2014 04:14
well yes, I agree, its not that I want to run it, I am just trying to build it to test that build and it just dumps on load
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:19
Shouldn't be too hard to find some input on that - a lot of the devels are Mac
Jason Hawks
@nbq
Nov 11 2014 04:20
yeah well, since they use those fit null hdmi plugs at mmv, I didn't know if that had something to do with it
so its why I knew you could check since you use the same setup basically
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:22
could be - I hope to trade out the one there now for a 2k12 with Ubuntu sometime in next few months. I'll likely experiment on the old one once it get back to me with Mac OS
Jason Hawks
@nbq
Nov 11 2014 04:22
oh so you aren't running OS X on it right now, got ya
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:23
the current one at MMV is OS X, the one I'm replacing it with when I have time will not. :)
Jason Hawks
@nbq
Nov 11 2014 04:24
ah okie, well as long as it works for you
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 04:24
So far so good haha
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:05
Omega it worked perfectly
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:05
glad to hear!
I'm looking for electrical tape to cover the new pulsing mic is muted button in Interface before it drives me crazy catching my eye while looking at 2nd monitor.
Was that a typo or did it work on 12.04?
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:08
It worked
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:08
cool : )
I didn't expect it to be happy on < 14.04 so that's good to know.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:08
sorry i meant 14.04
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:09
oh ok ; ) just checking so I could update the works on note.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:09
your instructions should probably go into documentation somewhere
or just wait until they post a job for it hahaha
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:10
I'll try to get them on the wiki but it's kind of time consuming and a "process" to get things there.
yeah :)
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:30
any idea where i should put my security token?
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:31
the domain token? You can export it as a shell var but easiest is to just fill it into the web based domain setup and it'll save it.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:31
oh ok there is a web setup, good
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:31
yourip:40100
one annoying thing that comes and goes is applying changes made via web interface sometimes crashes the DS and you have to manually start it up again.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:34
i should probably open some ports too huh
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:34
If i remember right, just 40100
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:35
tcp?
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:35
both (udp too)
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:38
lol yeah it did crash
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:38
yeah - I'm used to it at this point. Been running it since August I think so it's just habit to have ssh open.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:41
i now own @sex
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:41
lolol!
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:44
I wonder what the domain names will cost? I really dont mind paying now for a domain if it means supporting the project.
and getting a good price locked in :D
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:46
No idea but considering the number of domains Phillip hopes to see (per what he said over weekend in the OS Conference) I'd guess not some exorbitant amount. I hope for something around the cost of a typical DNS domain as that's the analogy they make often.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:47
well thats good because i grabbed like 20
beats the crap out of $300 a month tier
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:47
hah - I hear ya. I'm less ambitious at only wanting a couple.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:48
well i grabbed some for business associates
not just going to squat :P
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:48
plus I have a nasty habit of seeing a domain as same space as 4096 SL sims so 2 go a long way ;)
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:48
haha yeah
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:49
actually if one assumed a ceiling of 4096M and stacked... you could do 16K 256x256 in a domain. lol
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:49
bah secondlife is taken!!
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:50
I noticed that too haha
I have no idea if these will have any impact on precedence when actual registration comes.
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:50
thats why i dont mind paying
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:51
nods
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:51
well maybe we will get first in line if we regged them in alpha
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:51
never know - can't hurt to be ready.
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 05:57
glad you got it going - sleep time here (reluctantly). Have fun!
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 05:57
gnite
Judas
@judasshuffle
Nov 11 2014 11:39
The flashing voice button is annoying and voice mutes itself if u leave the mic open to stop it flashing
CrackerHax
@CrackerHax
Nov 11 2014 17:56
Any word on video streaming?
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 23:32
Interface is wanting an update to 1429 - download link is giving the xml fragment the versioning system uses instead of file.
Leonardo Murillo
@murillodigital
Nov 11 2014 23:32
@OmegaHeron yeah about to fix
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 23:32
ty
Leonardo Murillo
@murillodigital
Nov 11 2014 23:57
@OmegaHeron around?
latest version is 1434, can you confirm it loads fine please
Joe Large [Omega Heron]
@OmegaHeron
Nov 11 2014 23:58
@murillodigital confirm 1434 downloads