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##### Activity
weepy
@weepy
the code sampler are good
perfect way to show it off
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray
Most people laugh at my code samples and that's ok
weepy
@weepy
why do they laugh
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray
They feel it's too basic
I am not using ES6 yet
weepy
@weepy
yeah I would switch that if I were you
it's better apart from anything else
but im talking about the mathy stuff.
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray
sure, just takes a bit of time for an old guy like me
weepy
@weepy
im not saying to get rid off it
maybe it can be another page
how old are you ?!
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray
mentally or physically?
my first computer was a TRS-80
weepy
@weepy
mine too
im 39
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray
just a bit older...
weepy
@weepy
heh ok
anyways ---- ofc take or leave my advice
just saying what i think :D
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray
makes sense, just so many hours in day
Interesting, the TODO vanilla JS is just running on the browser.
weepy
@weepy
yeah i think that's the standard
isomorphic is interesting but i feel it's an advanced thing
weepy
@weepy
I think it's a bit bad practice to mix your model data with the model functions/state ? e.g model.state, model.present etc ...
what do you think about that
Jean-Jacques Dubray
@jdubray

isomorphic is interesting but i feel it's an advanced thing

this was advanced until SAM, because that was nearly impossible to achieve
SAM makes it totally trivial

I think it's a bit bad practice to mix your model data with the model functions/state

this is wiring, you can wire the pattern in any way you'd like
The constraints of the pattern are only:

• on role and responsibilities of Actions, Model and State
• Sequence of invocations in the reactive loop as defined by the expression V = S( vm(M...
• weaving of API calls in the pattern (3rd party APIs and CRUD)
After that you can distribute and connect the elements of the pattern any way you'd like, that's the whole point of making Isomorphic JavaScript easy to achieve. Here are all the combinations you deploy the pattern as: http://sam.js.org/#iso
There is no prescription on wiring at all
brucou
@brucou
what do you mean by "only one factoring to computing, it's called TLA+"
This factoring is "unique", you just can't make it up (IMHO)
You can define formalisms on top of it, but you cannot decide arbitrarily what the foundation is, it is foundational.
Computer science is not based on opinion.
As I mentioned before, there is not only one factoring to computing, and that is just as known as the fact that the earth is round.
maybe you have to do a little bit more research.
you can't throw up any formalism in the air and say that one works too,
That's exactly what you are doing with SAM
My point is that TLA+ is a formalism which can be used to describe any state machine as we know it, therefore I claim it is foundational.
brucou
@brucou
Bruno, there is only one factoring to computing, it's called TLA+, everything else that was built prior to that is an approximation
Except that there is a very, very fundamental difference here
SAM state machines are not of the kind (S1,A,S2)
If that was the case, you would be correct
As I mentioned the structure of (S1,A,S2) is an approximation
An approximation to what? of what? What does that even mean?
brucou
@brucou
Every program written with a turing-complete language can be written in another turing-complete language including the turing original machine itself . That is all turing-complete languages allow to write the same programs.
So writing a program as a sequence of commands is not an approximation (whatever you meant by that), it is just as valid as any other way.
It is about semantics, 1/1 and 16-15, $2^2 - 3$ are different expressions, but they denote the same number. You can't say one expression is an approximation and the other one is the real thing.
brucou
@brucou
Back to state machines, the notation you use to describe them does not change their semantics, so (S1, A, S2) and the other one you wrote (I think it was (S1, A1, ..., NAP or something) are syntactic constructions. The behaviour of the state machines or its semantics is entirely decided based on the tuple which defines it (set of input symbols, set of output symbols, set of states, etc.)
You have the tendency to present things which are just your unsubstantiated vision of things as being science backed by important theoretical construction, but I had a close look and I did not get to that conclusion.
brucou
@brucou
Last thing, even if all of the previously quoted statements were all true, TLA+ is irrelevant to SAM. There is no need to go read any mathematical papers on anything. To determine a judgement on some properties of a theory/architecture, you need clear semantics which I haven't seen here. On the contrary, I see mathematics formulas where the functions are not really functions.