These are chat archives for ldnclj/chat

24th
May 2015
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 09:45
@martintrojer how am I 'wrong' about puppet
Assuming one can't be wrong about ones own opinions
you are wrong about puppet 'If you run puppet twice, the second time it will do nothing.' is not true
if you dont specify dependencies correctly it make take 2 runs
if you dont guard an exec it will always run
@martintrojer 'But, the actual point of loops in puppet is misguided', I didnt add them to puppet, they did
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 09:52
my point is/was that they got basic shit like scoping wrong (which they admit by later fixing it)
and that their users expected loops, which they later added
You seem to think only puppet has idempotency too if I understand you correctly
Don't get me started on the monstrosity that is http://docs.ansible.com/playbooks_loops.html
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 09:59
Puppet people seem to think making DAGs is hard
they also dont even use the fact it's a DAG to parallise, as they cant be sure it's safe
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 10:26
You are mostly writing ruby if you want to do anything moderately complex was my argument, eg 'Make sure a line exists in a file'
Chris Howe-Jones
@chrishowejones
May 24 2015 10:31
@thatommyhall so what's you're preference for CM tooling?
Benedek Fazekas
@benedekfazekas
May 24 2015 10:32
yeah i would be interested too. you don't seem to be very fond of ansible
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 10:32
ha, I think we are groping towards something
but nothing is there yet
something like chefs DSL with Ansibles execution model and 'batteries included' thing
Benedek Fazekas
@benedekfazekas
May 24 2015 10:33
haha, it sounds like you should team up with @martintrojer and go for it
Chris Howe-Jones
@chrishowejones
May 24 2015 10:34
Seriously, is there a gap in market here?
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 10:38
I'd do a Clojure DSL I think, but yeah - agentless, masterless
I should take longer look at Pallet
https://github.com/vektra/tachyon has Go agent, Lisp DSL
Im off to have a hike anyhow
chat soon y'all
Chris Howe-Jones
@chrishowejones
May 24 2015 10:40
@thattommyhall Open source it and we can all join in. If its monetizable could sell consultancy/ support ;-)
Benedek Fazekas
@benedekfazekas
May 24 2015 10:41
have a nice one @thattommyhall
Chris McDevitt
@minimal
May 24 2015 11:46
NixOS/Ops has many things to like and seems more "correct by design"
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 20:41
thanks @minimal , ill watch it
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 21:20
I saw a talk by the guy that invented cfengine and I think he set the tone with 'convergence'
and the declarative thing is bollocks sometimes
if you use the nginx module, that allows you to fetch nginx from loads of different places, compile modules in and stuff and then change it to use a different source does it work?
does it work for the N*(N-1) different ways you might do that?
you can make the 'correct' edit of your purely declaritive, lets forget there is state code
and it wont work
because your CM tool has not considered properly all the states it might be in
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 21:31
thats why the immutable server thing is interesting
thattommyhall
@thattommyhall
May 24 2015 21:38
can say that my manifests get me from a known state (eg base ubuntu) to what I want
not 'hey just write what you want and we will make it happen, where you are does not matter and it will never hit a weird error because we made a DAG of what you said you needed and all those 3rd party things you rely on will also just work'