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Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
@csarven i can't show you our own code right now but here are some sample applications: http://www.saxonica.com/saxon-js/documentation/index.html#!samples
the basic idea is that it handles events using special modes:
<xsl:template mode="ixsl:onclick" match="button[@label='expand']">
    <xsl:result-document href="#detail-area">
        <xsl:apply-templates select="doc('details.xml')"/>
    </xsl:result-document>
</xsl:template>
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@namedgraph_twitter I'm referring to content/text editing.. manipulating the DOM for instance.. whatever the mechanism is eg. along the lines of contenteditable="true".
I'm not talking about arbitrary applications taking user input. If content editing is possible with clientside XSLT (and whatever benefits that brings over alternatives), I'd like to see a full example / demo.
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
but how do you do it with JS?
knowing that makes it easier to translate to XSLT
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
For instance, editor libraries like MediumEditor relies on contenteditable. We were discussing the "next editor" in dokieli and you've mentioned "[..] sees another chance to use client-side XSLT". So, I'd like to understand that better. You tell me.
or did you just want to talk about XSLT and how LDP is wrong etc etc.. :)
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
both :) i'm not familiar with MediumEditor and contenteditable in general, but whatever you can do in JS you can do with Saxon-JS, except maybe some edge cases
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Prove it (tm).
I'm genuinely open to the options. This is strictly about content editing.
I don't want to write an editor library. I don't think dokieli should focus on that.. or at least there needs to be a lot more use cases and requirements presented such that existing libraries out there don't cut it and so we have to do it. Even then, that'd be a separate project on its own with multiple people/community working on it.
Until then, IMO, dokieli should make the best of what's out there.
Adrian Gschwend
@ktk
@csarven one of the issues I see for non-technical people right now is setting up some space where researches can start working online. did you ever think about providing some base infrastructure?
I would be more than happy to host something but not sure what would be needed as a starting point
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@ktk Yes, have considered but it is out of dokieli's scope - if that's what you're asking?
Adrian Gschwend
@ktk
yeah I see that. would you be interested in guiding on something like that?
we have one colleague which is doing great work for us on kubernetes based hosting infrastructures and I wonder what we would need to setup some stuff
ideally we would have some docker based setup for running on premise for those who want and a hosted version for those who do not care and don't want to do it
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
There are public read-write Solid/LDP spaces. Depending on what and how much one wants to get out of dokieli, they can literally serve it off any HTML-capable server to start with.
Adrian Gschwend
@ktk
I did not get the ldp part, LDP is a requirement or simple PUT/POST support like webdav would be enough?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
LDP is not required to serve (reading) a dokieli article (HTML with JS, CSS). Same goes for annotations and notifications if they are represented as HTML. For writing, more features are needed from a server. Ditto navigating resources.
HTTP PUT/POST is required to write. Authentication being orthogonal.
Adrian Gschwend
@ktk
ok and I suppose it's posted as non-rdf resource to ldp?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
dokieli sends HTTP Link header with ldp:Resource by default, but if a server doesn't understand it, they can ignore it, or act on it because they don't like LDP :)
I think we'll change it to ldp:RDFSource for articles, annotations, notifications. For historical reasons (in order to work with existing servers) we used ldp:Resource.
At the moment article are in HTML+RDFa (may also contain other non-RDFa-RDF in script). Annotations and notifications are internally prepared as HTML+RDFa but will depend on content negotiation (ie. may be transformed to other RDF syntax before sending to the server). If server doesn't understand or want HTML+RDFa, it will fallback to JSON-LD.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Any way.. more servers the merrier. I don't mind hosting a playground down the line for dokieli when I feel that the server maintenance will be minimal - famous last words.
Adrian Gschwend
@ktk
ok will try to bootstrap some image
might get back to you
Julian Cole
@Julian-Cole
Hi, i'm new to Dokieli and I have a few questions; if I created a Dokieli page is the page index-able with any of the main / any search engines?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@Julian-Cole Yes, but that's not by design or intention. The documents are in HTML+RDFa and intended to be accessible; text-based browser friendly, archivable etc. Article's content is static and so it is not dynamically fetched by JS or rely on some API.
So, beyond that, I can't say to what extent a search engine may or may not index a document or show the article in SERPS for the keywords that's looks up.
Google is for instance pretty poop/archaic about understanding or doing anything about non-schema.org vocab stuff. So, if a document uses something else, don't expect it to be treated/handled in a special way.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
dokieli uses schema.org quite a bit for common non-specialised stuff, usually about the document itself. A bit like a replacement for dcterms and foaf where appropriate but that's not a strict rule.
Julian Cole
@Julian-Cole
@csarven many thanks! have you thought about making it more blog biased , perhaps offer a few blog template style layout presets?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@Julian-Cole Do you mean HTML templating or different CSS? The former is still roughly planned so that there can be sort of like site wide changes. The latter is already possible to some extent. It is also possible to add some HTML blocks but per document eg. add author, license, document status, dates.. Going through that process helps to see common patterns which will eventually be used for cross-document templating.
Julian Cole
@Julian-Cole
@csarven when i create a new Dokieli page in my pod i can see it creates a html template with a H1 inside an ARTICLE tag; I was just thinking it might be nice to have "Templates" button where I can select from perhaps common page layout patterns.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@Julian-Cole I agree. That's ballpark what the current system does. The Edit (author) mode triggers some of the items/blocks that I've mentioned.
Markus Stocker
@markusstocker
I happen to get back to the ORKG Earth Science use case with dokieli integration (documented here: https://github.com/TIBHannover/orkg-npfe-jn/blob/master/notebook.ipynb) but it seems to fail when trying to do the RDFa annotation (as described in the "Scholarly Communication" section). Has something changed in dokieli RDFa annotation since March this year? What I noticed is that after I fill the RDFa popup and click on the checkmark the popup doesn't disappear (obviously, I don't recall if it used to do that). Also, the RDFa annotation doesn't appear in the source. Any clues?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@markusstocker Thanks for the heads up! There was a small regression bug. Fixed. Pushed. You can refresh.
Markus Stocker
@markusstocker
Super, works as expected. Thank you!
Mike Adams
@mikeadams1
@Julian-Cole If you store the document in a solid pod, it will be indexable by the search engines
The more links you create to it, the more it should appear organically
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
https://whocanuse.com/?b=FFFFFF&c=080&f=20&s= (dokieli's green for local links). I like the situational vision events.
Jordan Shurmer
@JordanShurmer
nice tool! I haven't seen whocanuse before