These are chat archives for nightscout/intend-to-bolus

19th
May 2015
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 01:14
I'm constantly amazed at how well diyps style eating soon mode works. Doorstep
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 01:19
Between that and some speculative superbolusing, fat and occlusions are about the only thing that ends up sending me high. I really need to work on closing the loop.
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 01:25
This message was deleted
The gitter mobile web page does some really strange things
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 01:26
We just landed. The pilot was joking "welcome to Pittsburgh" and even gave us the local time there WTH?!
Do you have the Gitter app @mgranberry ? It sucks but it's better than the web page
Bummed about doing chemo in a day and a half
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 01:34
Really bummed.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 02:56
Nothing like feeling like throwing yourself out of the car because you are doing chemo in 1.5 days. I have felt like doing that before on the way to chemo...
I know a dude who literally went from walking to a wheelchair from the autoimmune neuropathy I have in a short period of time and chemo was what put it in remission and he said he felt the same way. So it's not just me.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:00
just spent 2 hours looking into why I couldnt get decocare running on this laptop
turns out
you should type in the serial number correctly
if you want it to work
that sounds like nofun @diabeticgonewild
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:03
yeah like 10% have serious reactions
I get an iron infusion tomorrow. I get tired of it. I feel like my life revolves around treatment.
Rituximab on Wednesday ftw, I guess
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:05
bussy bussy
not the fun kind either
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 03:06
I'm sorry, @diabeticgonewild, that's just completely the suck.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:06
It never really is, mostly. But I did get to meet Dana and Scott.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:06
I cant wait to meet them!
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:06
Yeah, it does blow but maybe I will feel better...get to go back to school and stuff
Yeah!?
I have met @TC2013 too!
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:07
Im going to go to the thing in boston! You should go if you are free
I would imagine its far for most people here as everyone seems to be from cali or aus
or texas
I think that covers like 85% of the people in any of these gitter rooms
@bewest good news, bolusing on the 715 works like a charm
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:10
What thing in Boston?
I don't really want to travel too much. Just trying to get my life sorted out. It's messed up but true.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:12
its a diabetes mine conference
followed by a very expensive ada confrence which I will not be attending
but yeah, I get that, I dont travel much
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:16
Like I enjoy traveling but everything has just been a drag lately. Like going to school, living, and just everything in general. Don't even want to work on my personal project #VirtualPancreas cause I never feel well. My gut hurts right now for example. And TMI but because I have severe gastroparesis, I regurgitate involuntarily and like sometimes food/crap hangs around in my stomach too long and it's like I fart from my mouth...super disgusting. I did that all the time while I was visiting up in Seattle. How embarrassing!
It's not actually diabetes-related though...but that's a wild story in itself
Like it smells like passing gas but it comes from my mouth and I rarely have control over it. Super gross.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:19
certainly does not sound fun :-(
though, considering the other symptoms you describe, I think that would be the one I would be most okay with
so now that snap went under Im not sure what pump to go with
do you use the medtronic normaly @diabeticgonewild
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:26
Gastroparesis puts a huge dent on your quality of life, kind of like chronic pain. You live with chronic nausea and vomiting but mine is under control. There was a point in time where I was losing the ability to eat due to vomiting but it got better after I got a medical device.
Not anymore. I have a 530G that's out of warranty, but I was using a Tandem t:slim and switched to the dark side (Medtronic)
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:27
I cant begin to imagine
I feel like I wouldnt like the tslim, any reason you ditched it
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:28
Charging...but it's really no big deal...if you plug it in while you shower or whatever. If you don't shower/bathe, I don't know what to say!
But yeah, I can't really deal with things even like charging at times, which is hard to believe.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:29
oh yeah... I didnt even think about that, I just assume charge it at night with everything else
only...
it has to stay connected to you
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:30
I don't like being plugged in while sleeping. It's not a big deal but it's not 100% safe
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:30
I flail around quite a bit
lost a few good pump clips
:-D
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:30
Yeah that sucks!
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:33
Im thinking I dont really want the vibe
maybe the ping
but I kinnnnnda like the accucheck/I really only like that its bt
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:34
There's been some "work" on it. But RF engineering is hard
The problem with the Accuchek is you can't use the bolus calculator unless you use their meter
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:34
that seems silly
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:35
but I guess you can use an iPhone app for insulin calc, put it into Care Portal, and have IOB on your Pebble/Android Wear/whatever, so no biggie
everyone uses their phones all the time, so just get it integrated with a logging app, that lets you export data as like a CSV or whatever and just sync the information together.
It wouldn't be that hard, as long as the times were the same on your pump and phone. You could write a program in Python or whatever, or you could just copy and paste
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:37
yeah, I feel like I would just be lazy some percentage of the time and just pick a 'seems like what I need' number of units if I had to use 2 devices to bolus
so it would have to be control everything from my phone or bust
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:38
I bolus whatever I feel like bolusing but I am good at math...but so are you!
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:38
bluetooth low energy is easy(ish) bluetooth, not so much
I can do math but I do it slowly! and when I want to eat I am impaitent
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:39
Oh that sucks.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:40
I could handle bolus calculations but it wouldnt be to the precision of a bolus calculator, everything would get rounded going in
20ish carbs, 120ish bg, close enough
and iob if it displays it
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:41
I could probably get it to 0.25 increments on a good day if I am feeling well without much effort. Low blood pressure/tachycardia issues due to my blood pressure issue while standing up is another story...makes it hard to concentrate
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:43
question on decocare, what are the common practices for telling it to init rf, do you do it all the time or only after getting a response that indicates its off
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:43
About to take some opium tincture...yummy. TMI but I have the opposite problem of gastroparesis lower down my digestive tract. It's been going on for at least 10 years and that's what I got hospitalized for pretty much in January, although they found a blood clot in my lung cause I had "chest pain' and was coughing
You use Cron
OpenAPS is intended to use the cron structure
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:45
Oh goodness, the blood clot had to do with gastroparesis?
gotcha, Im moving thigns into android so I suppose alarm manager will be the eqivalent
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:46
No they thought I might have had lupus. Now seeing a rheumatologist, and they think I may have antibodies towards like one of the 20 or so factors involved with blood clotting.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:47
the fun just keeps coming!
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:47
Like I have antibodies against my thyroid (all of them for hypothyroidism), intestines (nothing specific yet), peripheral nerves, and of course in the past pancreas garbage
that's so far...
it's all linked potentially together by a single antibody.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:48
well it sounds like your immune system is ready to attack! probably safe from zombies at least
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:49
My neurologist thinks I might have this but it's rarer than my rarest disease but so far it links all of it together, as far as we know https://www.google.com/patents/US20140377883?dq=anti+peripherin+antibody&hl=en&sa=X&ei=krJaVcSqLdPioAT0l4HoCw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw
like I have 2 autoimmune neuropathies. At first, with the first disease, they thought it was diabetes-related, but it got too extreme and they got desperate and they ended up testing me for rare stuff and it came back positive for the antibodies.
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 03:52
interesting
Im guessing there is a whole lot of testing and questions and not a lot of concrete answers
so this is a pattent for a test from just last year? You are on the bleeding edge
Im calling it a night for now! talk to you more soon
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 03:56
It's been going on for a few years now...the patent...the test was supposed to be available in January 2014 according to one of the people in the patent
TTYL!
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:12
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken what was q?
for RF init, I've done it 3 ways: 1. manual command line --init switch, 2.) auto-detect if it's needed using --auto-init switch, and finally 3.) openaps tracks all usage, and keep track of how long ago last known RF on was
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken I highly recommend using openaps as your UI/frontend for now
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:24
hey @bewest, I looked into openaps briefly, and noticed the setup instructions were all from source. Do you plan to direct folks to install from pypi eventually?
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 05:25
I suspect Ben just hasn't updated readme yet. Would be happy to accept your pull request if you want to update them.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:25
it's in pypi now
wanted to make sure all the bits were working
found lot of packaging mistakes at first
v0.0.0 ;-)
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:29
excellent choice!
room to grow anyhow
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:29
yeah :-)
should bump it and release tonight/tomorrow
I decided against installing udev rules during package install
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:30
I'll help beta-test the pypi install this week, then. helping a fellow openaps-dev member get their pi setup this week and figured I'd build a docker image to make it simple
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:30
and instead have a new command, openaps-install-udev-rules which does tha
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:31
got it, I saw that change in decocare
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 05:33
Nice.
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:37
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/build/openaps/setup.py'
it's not all magic ;-) I'll keep you guys posted tomorrow
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:43
looks like the image didn't properly have setuptools installed.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:43
ok
I just did bunch of record keeping
hmm
I just released v0.0.1 of openaps against updated dependenciese
Nathan Racklyeft
@loudnate
May 19 2015 05:44
the joy of docker is fully realizing all the tools you rely on in your everyday environment
and manually specifying their packages
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:48
sudo apt-get install python python-setuptools python-numpy python-software-properties
but as of five minutes ago, just easy_install -Z openaps should work
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 05:57
updated readme to recommend sudo easy_install -Z openaps
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 06:04
@diabeticgonewild sounds hard, I wish you all the best. In 2009/2010 I had a extrem hard time with colorectal cancer.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 09:26
https://github.com/bewest/decoding-bayer/blob/master/complete-pump-nextlink/head-1k.markdown for anyone looking at contour nextlink, it can talk to the pump as well, I created a tool to render the csv's from the totalphase device used to do packet sniffs into nicer markdown
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 09:36
Thank you so much @bewest !
@holgi13 that's really rough and scary
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 13:43
thanks @bewest for now Im just playing, not actually using it for anything!
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 14:18
Getting an iron infusion this morning. Tomorrow is physical therapy then chemo...yay
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 14:37
@diabeticgonewild I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
May 19 2015 14:54
Thank you :)
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 15:18
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken I like the t:slim (mostly). Their new firmware fixes most of the problems I've had with it, and having IOB front and center is nice. I still do boluses using mental math and the hardware quick bolus button about a third of the time, but it is nice having temp basal history etc accessible from the device. I don't know of any other pumps that provide that.
Dana Lewis
@danamlewis
May 19 2015 16:44
@mgranberry but temps are not incorporated into IoB, right? So still requires math, although at least you can see what you did :)
@loudnate glad you're getting started on OpenAPS!
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 17:21
that is correct, and calculating the effect of temps is a little trickier. I usually just approximate it as a bolus at the midpoint and go on with life.
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:07
Hi, I need your help. I would be interested what insulin pump models work in future of OpenAPS?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:07
future is too mysterious
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:08
Oliver work hard on the Bluetooth connection with Accu-Chek Spirit Combo!
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:08
and depends what you mean by "work" if you mean the reference spec with automated basal action, it's very unclear
you mean in theory?
anything with wireless access to history and dosing commands
there's http://www.sooil.com/NEW/eng/m3_r_03.html which looks very very promisingg
but not in US
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:10
Hi Ben, I try since weeks to get a connection so ACCU Check. But it looks like they did something clever.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:11
hi oliver, the logs you gave were good
useful
but still unclear where to go :-(
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:13
@bewest is the medtronic pump the only one that work? Any one else?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:13
Yes, i made several attemps. Using Edison BT, Using ubertooth for sniffing. The best results i got where the last i'd shared with you. But right now i don't have an Idea to go on. I need an capture from the connect between meter an pump. But it is hopeless the ubertooth is not capable to capture a pairing.
ubtertooth can follow a running connection.
ubertooth ca do many things. But i need a capture of the regular pairing.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:15
@holgi13 if you are asking what works today, it's only medtronic pumps, X12, X15, X22
yeah, ubertooth should be able to capture the pairing
it could be they are hopping on another frequency or somoething out of band
IR, or whatever
that system uses 3 different ways to communicate, right?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:17
what is the third ? accept for the user
BT,IR and ?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:17
I thought there were two different bluetooth things going on?
or is it just 2 then?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:18
jeah
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:18
I don't know the details fully
I offered to buy multiple units, cash, if they would give me the protocol
they said absolutely not
I said this is going to drive pump sales...
help me make that true :-)
I'd love to import this dana pump: http://www.sooil.com/NEW/eng/m3_r_03.html
it has nice BT access
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:19
Okay, the accu check meter und pump are using BT. For diabetes data analysing and configuration is the IR interface
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:20
yeah, it's a weird system, not sure how it will work with openaps without taking the pdm out of the works
it can only do one pdm connection at a time, right?
because the "pump mode" is a global locking mechanism?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:20
what do you mean with pdm ?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:21
the handheld unit is meter/remote combo pdm type of deal isn't it?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:21
yes that's right
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:21
if you had 2 or 3 could you use them all in pump mode at the same time?
openaps will need to use pump mode, potentially at same time you need to use the meter
is that possible?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:22
is not possible. We have to forward the data from meter.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:23
ah, a fancy bridge has to be built in
that would be nifty
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:24
Yes, but without protokoll it is still to bad. I like accu check pump. We use the system 4 years right now.
My son got the shit as he was 2 yo.
And it was alway nice that he pump was not visible.
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:26
@bewest the new medtronic Minimed 640G speak with the Bayer contour Link next? So it is possible to connected on the way?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:27
mmmm the issue with the 640G is that the firmware is fundamentally different. while it uses an RF protocol that is compatible with the nextlink radio, the protocol itself has been locked down with some kind of encryption/replay-prevention or something from what I've heard through the grapevine
the serious problem, though, is that the firmware uses a different protocol, and the system has been designed to prevent people like us from doing things like this
it will be possible to get data out, possibly, but it's not clear there is a way to issue doses remotely
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:29
The question would be has metronic an remote to bolus ?
on the 640G
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:30
@bewest now it's clear that all speak of the dark side ;-)
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:30
the cybersecurity industry beat up on the medical industry for last several years, the political backlash to "secure remote bolus" has been overwhelming
lot of fear mongering, has led to chilling effects
the train accident in PA has been interesting to follow
they are faulting Amtrak/Government for failing to have installed "forward train control" or whatever, basically a closed loop algorithm, which could have prevented the accident
what would happen if we applied that logic to lows?
we'd have an Ap already
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:32
Jap
me too.
Holgi13 and i had also a running APS. But we didn't tried yet. Still work to do to make it nice.
:)
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:34
Not nice - Safe
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:39
But we all here need a solution to control a pump for the future. The old medtronic pumps don't work forever :'(
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:40
one thing to keep in mind is that the new intel edison blocks could actually become a DIY pump in next few years
it's small enough that even several "blocks" stacked together are same size as my current pump
another thing to get creative about is convincing SOOIL to import the Dana R pump to US
it's got good bluetooth
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:41
With country has the Dana R pump?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:42
bunch
mostly asia, I guess
but europe too
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:42
How much is the price for a Dana R?
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:45
@oschumac hear the Link in germany http://www.ime-dc.de/content/view/81/114/
It looks like the Meter is the remote? It is right Ben?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:47
dunno, I couldn't tell
main thing I care about is full wireless access
everything else almost doesn' matter now
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:48
In the next month I need a new pump, so it is possible for me in germany to get this Dana R pump.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:48
I think they sell one in the US but without wireless
I would be very interested in establishing communications with this company
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:49
Right!
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:50
if the give us the protokoll. I will buy one.
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 20:50
@bewest You're an FDA registered company now, ping them directly. Let's see if we can open that line of communication.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:53
yeah, I'd like to get like 100 people clearly saying "I'll buy one if you give us protocol"
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 20:53
Maybe we should found one :-)
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:53
I mean, we have organizations
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:54
@bewest you can't buy this pump from outside the US? It is prohibited?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 20:54
if I go outside the US with a prescription, I can get one and bring it back
but I'm not allowed to give it to someone else after
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 20:54
That is clear
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 21:01
For the first time in twenty years, I have hope, and now the industry wants to make this broken again
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:02
Another Idea would be. Why not build an own pump. just take an old pump and Edison with and get complete mad.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:02
yeah, I have same heartbreak
yeah
Toby Canning
@TC2013
May 19 2015 21:02
@bewes tI'm good for 1 maybe 2 (depending on warranty)
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:02
yeah, I mentioned that too, DIY pump
edison is great foundation...
just need sparkfun "block" with reservoir and motor
same size as current pump
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:03
Maybe that is much easier than reverse engineering.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:03
yeah, I'd be on board
Toby Canning
@TC2013
May 19 2015 21:03
Could probably repurpose insulet pods for the equipment!
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:04
if someone knew of contractor/assembler that could make it happen, I'd pay for it
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:04
What do you need to assemble ?
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 21:05
I'd be on board too
We need a old omnipod :-)
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:05
pump
pump, edison as base, modular robust blocks to hold reservoir, motor
maybe borrow from asante design
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 21:06
Open it and see what is going on
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:06
take an old pump
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:06
I've got several and taken several apart
asante has very very elegant mechanical design to ensure no faults
the device must break before the plunger can travel backwards
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:07
Who is asante ?
(they actually did give me their protocol, but it was usb only)
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:08
Since there are 3d printing devices available there is no need to worry about an special case.
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 21:08
I wonder if Asante would consider open sourcing their designs since they're hutting down. Wonder what they're doing with them....
that's what I'm wondering, @jwedding
it's worth talking to them someho
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:09
they have creditors that are going to want them to sell :-/
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:09
@oschumac actually, I believe a special case should be designed out of e-ink
e-ink is flexible and very robust
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:10
I'd give the NS foundation $10k if they wanted to give a low-ball bid on it, though.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:10
kickstarter :-)
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 21:11
Oy, buy a pump design. Holy crap. That would be somehting, wouldn't it? Buy the IP and open source it? :O
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:11
trouble with kickstarter is the thing you're doing has to basically be done already
no, not the design, we mostly know what the design requirements are
we want someone to actually build it
oh, buy it from asante, that's interesting
I know that Gil dePaul, of pancreum was considering opensourcing all his designs
I should reach out to him again
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 21:12
What is with omnipod pumps? This is on way pump, cheap and good base for an own control?
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:12
yes it is. So slaughter an old pump. Patch an edison on it. make an sprecial case. and we are ready to go.
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 21:12
Kickstarter is a good way to go from prototype to production. GoFund me, Indiegogo were the options I was looking at.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:12
last time I saw him, 2 years ago, he said he was going to give it another year to commercialize then give up
I prefer the tubed things to the pod things, but dunno, pancreum was a pod design
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:13
I like the Asante pump because it's an approved device with injection mold tooling etc already in place
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:13
and it might not be too expensive to co-opt.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:13
needs to be modified to introduce wireless
that's the motor body
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:14
can it be made to bolus over USB?
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 21:14
We get the Asante, we could print them. :P
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:14
no
not without all the IP
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:14
looks alike the pump is only for one time use ?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:15
it's a modular system, two parts
motor body, and the controller
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:15
just kidding :smile:
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 21:15
It's a nice pipe dream, but I think there will be some folks ahead of our lowball in line.
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:15
not that it's all that hard to make a motor driver. The bodies would have made a pretty good start to a homebrew pump.
Holger Sanft
@holgi13
May 19 2015 21:15
Hey folks my Smartphone accu is going down we read tomorrow - cu
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:15
they literally snap together, there is a special port through which they communicate on the inside of the joint where they hook together
the motor body is thrown away after each use
there is a special ftdi translator that is same form as the motor body, and snaps into the controller, providing 1/8th inch ftdi out, with a special usb cable to boot
jwedding
@jwedding
May 19 2015 21:17
Man, the suck is that Asante's website is still up and pounding away...
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:17
so motor is physically disconnected while using usb
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:17
@bewest that's unfortunate. One of the things I really like about the t:slim is that I can plug it in so easily.
...but that tells me that the motor body is likely controllable over a serial connection. I'm getting sadder all the time about Asante's problems.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:19
yeah, there's obviously some SPI or I2C or FTDI or some serial-like thing going across from the controller to the motor
very very elegant, like I said
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:21
yep. It wouldn't take too long with a borrowed logic analyzer to get all of that figured out.
Toby Canning
@TC2013
May 19 2015 21:22
How long are the refill insulin cartridges going to be produced for?
Are those immediately done too?
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:22
did they not use standard penfills?
hardware is so messy. It's a real shame there isn't an open, documented infusion pump out there.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:25
they use standard penfills
they aren't special, they're the default from vendor
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:27
Yes, but that is why it is a good idea to make one.
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:28
the expenses are pretty high for hardware, especially when it's aimed at delivering a fairly dangerous drug
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:28
the way they did it was super clever
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:28
and I'm sure the patents aren't cheap in that space. Lawyers might not care about OpenAPS, but OpenPump is going to wake up Medtronic et al.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:28
you can order box of humalog from insuliin maker
and it's their standard vials
so you simply drop the vial into the tube and smash it in with the tubing
that primes the tubing and ensures everything is correct
it takes 30 seconds or less
and there's no custom steps/hardware involved
not a vial, but cartridge I guess, same ones that go in the pens
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:31
But what should they do? The companies get their money from the katheder and so on. I don't believe that they like to sell pumps.
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:31
yep. I've seen the demos. I wouldn't mind having the weeks of my life that will be devoted to tubing changes back.
@oschumac Pumps lose money, but the consumables do too at the volumes that they get sold at.
Medtronic makes money because they're huge (relatively) in a crowded market
The rumor is that Asante had sold ~1 thousand Snaps. It's hard to run a hardware business on a volume of 1k, even if they are $7k devices.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:34
hard to switch to them with no wireless
if you are an HCP, there was no reason to recommend them
we need a "dumb" IoT pump, imo
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:35
I'm surprised none of them automagically upload data through a phone. HCPs would be all for that
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:36
yes IoT pump i like that.
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:37
and to be honest, I just want a pump strapped to my underwear that I don't ever interact with except to change tubing. That and a bolus button.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:38
right, but that means it's got to be present on some wireless network so you don't have to muck with it
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:41
Of course
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:42
still needs to do classic pump mode too, needs to know how to execute schedules/patterns
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:42
But that would sell a lot of pumps to parents of small children, people self conscious about their disease, and nerds like me
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:43
if it had an "apps for pumps" ecosystem like we're designing with openaps, I believe it would take over pump market, but I'm biased
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:44
I agree. Offline basal and some manual override ability. Any device needs to be capable of delivering insulin needed when any other controls have been lost/broken/depleted
Pump apps are a problem with the small community. The closer you get to hardware the more time development
takes and the number of people interested in writing apps for pumps is limited, although it would be awesome
...not sure I'd invest in such a startup, though
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:48
"apps for pumps" is intentionally ambiguous
if the pump is based on an intel edison, apps can coordinate over network, you can run app on your own server in your preferred language (NS) or even as dev as a scripting language on the edison
most people will want high level API that exports history
Oliver Schumacher
@oschumac
May 19 2015 21:49
good night cu Oliver
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 21:50
:-)
have a good night, chat later :-)
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 21:54
How much battery do you need for a week from a networked Edison?
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:27
no clue :-(
unfortunately, the description for the "battery block" says that the battery is good for over an hour's use
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 22:30
+1 to approaching Asante about getting a nonexclusive license to all their IP so we can put it into the public domain
I'd contribute at least 4 figures to that
we need to seriously approach them and see what the situation is.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:31
I sent mark estes a quick email, hopefully he'll want to chat
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 22:31
if they've already signed a deal that precludes us or not
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:31
Im all for anything that will keep my pump alive and well
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 22:31
or maybe not public domain, but at least one of those open patent pools that allows anyone to use it as long as they don't sue anyone in the pool
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:31
my poor asante snap
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:32
john gilmore has been acting as steward for open patents
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:32
If one is needed for science, I have 2 snaps
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:32
and a nice stockpile of pump bodies
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:32
FSF has nice patent pool
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:32
but I will be rationing those
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:32
I can't justify taking apart a controller now without good cause
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 22:32
lots of options there. but first we need to see if their IP is even still available
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:32
you can take apart old motor any time
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:33
Yeah I have
the innards are pretty cool
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:33
I think it would help if other people added onto this
yeah, we just had long chat, I posted pics of the innards
very clever system
mark estes' email: mestes@asantesolutions.com
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
May 19 2015 22:35
will it help to have multiple email threads? seems like someone officially representing the nightscout foundation should approach him an then include anyone else who might be relevant
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:36
maybe
why would they respond to one person from NS foundation though?
Emma Black
@StephenBlackWasAlreadyTaken
May 19 2015 22:37
blob
blob
blob
woopsies, gitter is a little slow, I thought that one was lost in the ether
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 22:42
ah, is that the controller?
mostly display, I guess
what kind of connector is that ;-)
I was browsing adafruit for a ribbon that can plug into that
Matthias Granberry
@mgranberry
May 19 2015 22:48
It looks like a mobile display connector.
Ben West
@bewest
May 19 2015 23:04
for the contour nextlink,
it uses a protocol called ASTM
this plus glucodump plus the new packet renderings should be sufficient