These are chat archives for nightscout/intend-to-bolus

2nd
Oct 2015
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 01:03 UTC
Yeah I'm not going to get the install script for the WiFi access point and for it to reconnect to another access point if available, done tonight. It probably will be at least a few more days. Sick and not feeling well. Have a urinary tract infection.
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 02:16 UTC
Early results good enough to try an overnight. I'll be doing finger sticks on the hour. Only wish the range on the Carelink stick were a little better... WIP.
Dana Lewis
@danamlewis
Oct 02 2015 02:17 UTC
:)
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 02:18 UTC
I tried to purchase a pump off medwow for a couple of months. Nobody would return my correspondence for the reasonably priced pumps. Finally found a 722 on craigslist.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:20 UTC
They aren't that hard to find at all. But you may have to drive/travel to get one, as some people are unwilling to ship. Plus you take a risk if you are buying one and are getting it shipped...
Dana Lewis
@danamlewis
Oct 02 2015 02:22 UTC
@ochenmiller Do you mind sharing how much you ended up getting it for
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:22 UTC
These may be better than a FlipBelt as it has zippered pockets and is larger than a FlipBelt. https://www.etsy.com/listing/230759062/pink-hipzipp-waist-belt-running-belt-3
FYI @danamlewis I refuse to pay over $400 unless I am desperate. Absolutely never more than $500. I have seen a 522 sold for even $25 or $80. I bought a used t:slim for $400. You have to be persistent to find these pumps. Searching everyday and be willing to drive up to 5-7 hours one direction to get the pumps.
I got a brand new, never used 522 pump for $300, a used 522 with 6 months of supplies for $200, and a 722 pump with 2 months of supplies for $350.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:28 UTC
I also checked to make sure they weren't too beat up and I always take a battery along with me. As long as the listing looks legit I don't get too weary or reluctant.
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 02:28 UTC
@danamlewis $400 for the 722 Medtronic. He threw in some reservoirs too. :smile:
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:29 UTC
Yeah, that's definitely a decent price.
Dana Lewis
@danamlewis
Oct 02 2015 02:30 UTC
@ochenmiller Cool, thanks for sharing.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:32 UTC
If the supply gets short, we may have to get pumps from China. Like off of AliBaba. That's what I am concerned about.
I hope we can get some industry partnerships before we have to resort to that. Or get Omnipod or Accuchek Spirit Combo to work...
I think ultimately some of this may need to be ported to Android and iPhone, and once the RileyLink works with the 522/722 pumps that will become a realistic possibility, particularly on iPhone. I think if someone comments all of the OpenAPS code components we could understand the code well enough to "reprogram" it for those systems with less problems than the Raspberry Pis. Plus less bulk.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:38 UTC
For what it's worth, there used to be some pumps coming out of China that looked just like the Paradigm series. I was like WTF when I first saw them...
This one resembles the Medtronic pump a lot, minus the luer lock http://m.alibaba.com/product/60147726352/Medical-insulin-pump-with-CE.html
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:46 UTC
It's a scary prospect. But as @bewest stated, China may be more willing to work with us.
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 02:46 UTC
can you figure out who makes that pump?
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:47 UTC
Willcare pump
@bewest CN Medicare pump http://www.cn-meditech.com
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 02:48 UTC
http://infusedmedical.com/page11.html is that the same pump?
CN Medicare does not make pumps
they sell stuff
kind of like DSC or someone
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:50 UTC
That's the one that resembles the Dana Diabecare/whatever pump
The info is sparse. Let me ask one of my friends who is a native Chinese speaker and who can tell what's legit and what isn't
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 02:52 UTC
willcare claims to be fda approved
and they offer design/manufacturing services, so they could be ideal partner
they are from TX
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:54 UTC
Well easier than that would be doing a reverse image search on Google.cn of the Alibaba photos
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 02:54 UTC
willcare isn't the pump that was shown though
useful to figure that out
in fact, just identifying all the places in the world that actually make pumps would be good
it's going to be fewer than 20, so...
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:56 UTC
You can do reverse image searches on Google now from mobile...
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 02:56 UTC
but I asked you who makes the pump ;)
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 02:56 UTC
You probably can find some from India, Israel, Jordan (maybe), Thailand, etc.
I haven't found the maker of the Medtronic knock off yet. I'm not proficient in Chinese
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 02:57 UTC
ok, well identifying any others would also be very good
Found the Medtronic knock off manufacturer, I think http://www.phray.com/en/Business%20cooperation.html
Bingo! We have offered OEM/ODM service for our customers for many years. We can design and manufacture original products for you. If you possess any latest technology achievement or sophisticated technique, or if you are looking for a partner to realize your product or project, welcome to contact Phray, we are very happy to work together with you to reach a new high point.
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:03 UTC
hehe
Ali Mazaheri
@amazaheri
Oct 02 2015 03:06 UTC
Nice @diabeticgonewild :)
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:06 UTC
Yeah you would know what recommendations to make with respect to communication...same with @ps2
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:06 UTC
ok, so we have two new pump companies "on the menu"
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:06 UTC
Yeah I have known about the knock offs from China for awhile. Might be worth the risk if you are viligant about your diabetes.
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:07 UTC
it's not a knock off
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:07 UTC
K. Hahahaha!
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:07 UTC
it actually does not look anything like paradigm
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:07 UTC
Thanks @amazaheri
The color scheme of the keys...
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:07 UTC
what about placement of the keys?
what about size of display?
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:08 UTC
I know.
Ali Mazaheri
@amazaheri
Oct 02 2015 03:08 UTC
how much they are selling them
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:08 UTC
these guys, I don't think are approved in US
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:09 UTC
$800-$1200 for the phray
Duh it's not approved
Ali Mazaheri
@amazaheri
Oct 02 2015 03:09 UTC
well not sure I trust for actual use
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:09 UTC
the bigger deal is wireless access
if it doesn't have wireless access and there's no way to work with them to add it, it's useless
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:09 UTC
Class II medical devices typically don't get seized by ICE enforcement
Ali Mazaheri
@amazaheri
Oct 02 2015 03:09 UTC
agree
no spec?
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:10 UTC
They may do wireless. Saw what I posted in bacticks?
I would trust an Israeli device more...for example
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:10 UTC
yeah, was easier to read on the website
for quotes use leading greater than sign for quotes
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:11 UTC
Israel does stuff like this too, in my searches on stuff in general
Thanks @bewest
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:11 UTC
it says nothing about wireless
I bet one of the deal breakers is there's no way to get any data off
and that's why it's not in US
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:12 UTC
Here's an imitation of Medtronic from Bangledesh http://m.tradeindia.com/fp2762073/Insulin-Pump-.html
Phray said they would work for "custom solutions" so advice can be given wrt wireless
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:13 UTC
hehe
often times that's code for "we'll put your logo and color on it"
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:18 UTC
TouchéMedical Ltd., an Israeli firm, is developing a small, cheap, and accurate infusion pump that would be within the budgets of millions of diabetics and people with other diseases treated by drug pumps.The device has a disposable cartridge that is particularly cheap to manufacture, and a reusable core that contains the actual pump and the electronics to drive it. It includes Bluetooth connectivity to be able to interface it with a smartphone can even send out SMS messages to keep physicians and loved ones informed on how the drugs are being delivered. - See more at: http://www.mpo-mag.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2015-05-18/israeli-firm-developing-cheap-patch-insulin-pump/#sthash.vtCd6xTT.dpuf
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:26 UTC
Here's the most legit non FDA pump that I have seen so far http://diamesco.com/bestlife1
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:26 UTC
what about non legit?
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:27 UTC
No chance of FDA approval
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:30 UTC
I just want facts of who makes what without a lot of judgement... the FDA thing is just a fact, it doesn't make it good or bad or legit or not-legit per se
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:30 UTC
Should be in a gist...
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:31 UTC
yeah, put all these in a gist, that'd be useful :-)
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:33 UTC
Ok WTF look at this pump!? http://www.apexdiabetes.com/#
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:34 UTC
that's the one in the bangledeshi photo
it's clearly not a knock off
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:34 UTC
Looks like it might take Medtronic sets http://www.apexdiabetes.com/pro.php
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 03:35 UTC
interoperability is good
haha, ok the UI is pretty similar
they might be knock off
haha
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:40 UTC
This is Bluetooth insulin pump in Chinese 蓝牙胰岛素泵
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 03:53 UTC
I think this one does Bluetooth http://www.tiantaibaojian.com/product/0PD22013.html
Trying to (kind of) confirm. On my mobile. Need to use my computer.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 04:02 UTC
It doesn't...I need to go to bed. Had a terrible day. Had immunomodulatory treatment today which makes me not feel well. Plus figured out that I had a urinary tract infection later on in the day. It doesn't help my mood. Plus doing immunomodulatory treatment every 2 weeks is very demoralizing although necessary for my health. I mean I have 2 rare autoimmune neuropathies.
The victims families are starting to talk to the media. Apparently he targeted specific people.
Sick
I'm talking about the Oregon massacre.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 04:20 UTC
But yeah because I am an idiot I didn't finish off my last antibiotic prescription the last time I had a urinary tract infection (had to go to the ER that time because I was vomiting from it and I was really sick) and I had it laying around so I just took that. I wish I had caught it earlier so I could go to my primary care doctor today. My doctors say I can't go to like urgent care because my medical situation is too complex and I really didn't want to go to the ER today. I probably should have cause I am receiving intravenous immunoglobulin, and I am on 2 forms of risky immunosuppression. But whatever. Maybe I should have had my primary care doctor call in a prescription, but I should be good. Blood sugars have been unusually high today from it. But I feel a lot better now.
Probably going to the doctor tomorrow...
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 06:16 UTC
you are not an idiot
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 06:37 UTC
left my little test loop running the last few days
2,878 commits
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 07:11 UTC
Thanks. I guess, whatever. I just woke up to extreme GI pain. I don't think the ER can do anything for me, so crossing off that idea. Any sort of movement whatsoever hurts, and I think it is getting worse...I hate being miserable.
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:18 UTC
can't talk to the stick anymore, need to reset something?
Oct  2 07:15:19 raspberrypi openaps-loop:   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/decocare-0.0.18_dev-py2.7.egg/decocare/stick.py", line 65, in respond
Oct  2 07:15:19 raspberrypi openaps-loop:     raise AckError("ACK is 0 bytes:\n%s" % lib.hexdump(raw))
sorry you're having such a hard time @diabeticgonewild, hope you feel better
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:23 UTC
@jasoncalabrese only known remedy is unplug/replug stick, sorry
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:35 UTC
tried a reboot, guess that doesn't do it
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:41 UTC
hmm, interesting
guess pulling the stick is relatively expensive ;-)
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:50 UTC
working fine after pulling the stick
didn't have to reboot or anything after that
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:51 UTC
yeah, it's a power supply thing
it might be possible to issue udevadm commands along with resetting usb stack
I haven't quite figured it out
the carelink stick needs to reboot itself
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:51 UTC
ah, I saw discussion about it, but without seeing it I didn't get it
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:52 UTC
well what you posted is perfect
ACK is 0 bytes is a big deal
zero read after ... is big deal
no read is bad
or read on bad frame offset is bad
so insane counters is bad
no diagnostic counters or insane diagnostic counters is very very bad
no ACK means no hello world
all very very bad
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:54 UTC
unplugging resets something on the stick or the pi?
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:54 UTC
stick
stick is maintaining it's own counters
so I ask the stick "usb stats? radio stats?"
those are the counters you see
they helpfully include diagnostics on timeouts, crcs, errors, rx, tx
it's lovely
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:55 UTC
guess it happened around the time I got home and plugged the battery into my laptop to charge it
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:55 UTC
that mm-stick command does a lot
mm-stick diagnose runs stick diagnosis
prints counters
so does mm-send-comm.py --no-rf-prelude sleep 0
basically does same thing
Jason Calabrese
@jasoncalabrese
Oct 02 2015 07:56 UTC
where's mm-stick?
Ben West
@bewest
Oct 02 2015 07:57 UTC
in openaps-js
so scott and dana seemed adament that they wanted some suite of tools to also be "community" owned
I think they should take on a tool set for the stuff they want to own
and we leverage as community specifically the community oriented stuff
which is plenty
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 12:53 UTC
Overnight went very well. Realistic and cautious optimism abounds.
Chris Oattes
@cjo20
Oct 02 2015 13:39 UTC
Sounds good :D
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 13:54 UTC
I think somebody (I am willing to do this on my own) needs to comment @bewest 's and all of the openaps tools, so that the code can be easily understood, improvements can be made, code can easily be debugged, and stuff can be reused such as for an iPhone or Android development (especially once RileyLink is figured out for the 522/722 pumps). Plus it will give it more credence.
I'm willing to comment every single line.
But today isn't going to be productive for me. Going to the doctor soon, going to go to the gym, and then I am going to rest. I'm not going to take my ADHD medicine (which will keep me awake cause it's amphetamines) because I need to rest. And I do legitimately have ADHD. I know I have a ton of things wrong with me medically and I am kind of the "ABC chick" with respect to medical diagnoses, but I mean I have 2 rare neurological diseases, and the autoimmune autonomic ganglionopathy (autoimmune autonomic neuropathy), that symptoms started appearing prior to my type 1 diabetes diagnosis, and is believed to, by my neurologist and my endocrinologist (at the minimum) to have caused my type 1 diabetes. It's all crazy, but at least some of the pieces can be put together and some of it makes sense. It kind of comes hand in hand with having rare (and also very rare) (autoimmune) diseases.
diabeticgonewild
@diabeticgonewild
Oct 02 2015 14:40 UTC
But @danamlewis @scottleibrand @bewest I am going to run OpenAPS with a Raspberry Pi with a decent powered USB hub officially supported for the Raspberry Pi (check out elinux.org for supported devices) when using the Pi at night. I am going to use an AC power supply for it, and connect the CareLink stick via USB through the powered hub. That is how I am going to try to debug the issue. For people who have closed loops and willing to spend in between $20-$50, this may be a good troubleshooting method. There is a way to use a powered USB hub on the go, but it adds bulk. Definitely would not do that without a purse/backpack at all times.
Chris Oattes
@cjo20
Oct 02 2015 14:51 UTC
I'm not seeing problems running a pi with wifi and a care link from a 2A battery
Also, commenting every single line probably reduces clarity rather than increasing it. You're better off describing the algorithm used in a function at the top
Chris Oattes
@cjo20
Oct 02 2015 14:59 UTC
well, no problems other than the .git directory corrupting itself, but I think that has more to do with bad power cycling
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 16:26 UTC
@ochenmiller awesome!
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 21:38 UTC
Please let me know if this kind of discussion is not appropriate for this forum. In determine-bolus.js you set a maximum with the logic maxSafeBasal = Math.min(profile.max_basal, 3 * profile.max_daily_basal, 4 * profile.current_basal); . Can you tell me how you came up with the multipliers of 3 and 4? Were those determined from a typical historic bolusing pattern, then distributed over the maximum time the system could leave those running (30 minutes)?
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 21:51 UTC
perfectly appropriate. it wasn't quite so scientific. :)
more based on our experience running the loop. we bumped them up once or twice, but are pretty happy with where they are now
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 21:52 UTC
I suspected rule-of-thumb on that one. And I've started with more conservative numbers until we get a sense of worst-case scenarios in terms of the way we respond to basal changes vs bolusing
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 21:52 UTC
for an adult with typical basals, that means max_basal can't be higher than about 4U/hr
but we have our max_basal set to 3.5U/hr, and most people start a lot lower than that
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 21:55 UTC
3.5U/hr. Do you mind if I ask what ISF that corresponds to?
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 21:56 UTC
40
and an average basal of about 1
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 21:57 UTC
Thanks, those are really helpful marker points
Chris Hannemann
@channemann
Oct 02 2015 21:58 UTC
As a second data point, I'm at 0.9 u/hr typical, 40 mg/dL/u, and use 3.0 u/hr max
So pretty similar
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 21:59 UTC
max_iob is the other useful thing to keep an eye on. default to 0, and we haven't had to take it higher than 2U
Chris Hannemann
@channemann
Oct 02 2015 22:02 UTC
@scottleibrand, as I'm not fully caught-up on openaps-js work, are y'all running the bolus snooze with the gradual reintroduction of correction temps now?
I know there was talk about it, wasn't sure if it was implemented
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 22:04 UTC
yes, that is running in the dev branch
Chris Hannemann
@channemann
Oct 02 2015 22:04 UTC
cool; and it picks up at t=1/2 x DIA, or something else?
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 22:05 UTC
I'm surprised that max_iob can run so low and still get reasonable rates of change. I'm considering ways to control and set different max rates of change depending on how high above target we are.
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 22:06 UTC
@channemann bolus snooze decays to zero at 1/2 DIA, yes
Chris Hannemann
@channemann
Oct 02 2015 22:06 UTC
thx
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 22:06 UTC
@ochenmiller this is effectively basal IOB only
2U of IOB from high temp basals corresponds to more than 2x your normal insulin
if your basal is 1U/hr, and you do 2U/hr for 1h, your IOB will be a bit less than 1U. getting to 2U with IOB decay basically requires running at 2U/hr for 3-4h.
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 22:09 UTC
I'm still thinking in boluses where it's possible to have many units onboard. It's a little mind bending to think it terms of basals over time. Kinda like calculus.
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 22:10 UTC
yeah. we do everything as "net" IOB, so you can ignore the normal basal
we actually model it internally as a bunch of micro-boluses to account for the difference in temp and normal basal
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 22:10 UTC
Which makes sense, and allows for the negative basal rates when lower than target.
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 22:11 UTC
exactly
Peter Miller
@ochenmiller
Oct 02 2015 22:12 UTC
You could think of basal/ISF as a normal upward "pressure"
Scott Leibrand
@scottleibrand
Oct 02 2015 22:12 UTC
I think of temp basals that way, but normal basal as neutral
Ali Mazaheri
@amazaheri
Oct 02 2015 23:30 UTC
and we are at 1.5,
max, .5 and 100
as our kiddo still honeymooning