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Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
there's a very fine line between a BDFL and a MDFL
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
and one thing i've learned is that no company has ever has a successful project and put it in to a foundation when they have any other choice
and that goes all the way back to Mozilla
i don't think we need to look at "what ifs" anymore
what is currently happening is bad enough to do something
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
So unless Ive missed some revisionist history, that's what Rackspace did when it created the Openstack foundation and gave away the IP
In fact people were reacting by saying we were crazy
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
;) i've talked to people close to that, Rackspace wasn't given much of a choice :)
it was presented as "look at all this awesome shit we did with your tech, this is going in to a foundation, are you?"
i also get the impression that people felt OpenStack was somewhat innevitable
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
there was certainly a land grab for the the canonical open source cloud
and/or a horse race
+1 on the CoC thing btw
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
ya, and the market was distributed enough that nobody could take majority market share but amazon, so everyone who isn't amazon had a big incentive to get together
the CoC should have happened a long time ago, and it's embarrassing that it didn't.
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
yea, our biggest challenge is going to be the sales/marketing orgs who manage the big events
(in doing it across the company)
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
none of this is rocket science, most of the time these are like the bare minimum we should be doing, and the fact that they have been so hard to accomplish in the past is why I setup Node Forward
ya, we're in a good place at DigitalOcean, we no longer sponsor those conferences anyway :)
nobody could find a good reason to spend the kind of money we had spent on Disrupt and SXSW
Alejandro Oviedo
@a0viedo
and what did @tjfontaine said about that?
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
it's quite literally the cost of a dozen developer events
@a0viedo what did he say about what?
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
We still have massive enterprise lead-gen going on at those big events; It'll probably be easier to get those events to add a CoC than it will to get universal support at rackspace to not do events without one
(and then once all of our events do a CoC, it'll be easier to enforce the policy globally)
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
if you have lawyers they'll tell you that you can't have one
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
because it assumes liability I expect?
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
that's what lawyers do, they tell you to do the thing that has zero legal risk, which means always do nothing
Alejandro Oviedo
@a0viedo
what you said about the bare minimum being so hard to accomplish, I mean @tjfontaine had to realize all of this
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
Running joke when I was at MSFT, was that Legal never wanted us to ship a single product :)
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
but doing nothing is risky in other ways and it's your responsibility as a company to balance that risk
@a0viedo TJ hasn't said much of anything, he's been invited to all the Node Forward TC calls
but i don't think it's fair to expect him to
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
and correct me if I'm wrong, he hasn't declined, he's just not responded?
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
he likes Joyent, he has friends there, he doesn't have the kind of relationship with that company that the community has
@kenperkins correct
it isn't fair to put him in the middle of all of this
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
I don't see how Joyent thinks they have a choice tbh; if they don't cooperate a fork emerges, materially damaging the situation
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
the changes we want would have to be approved by the board of directors, so pointing at TJ is pretty unfair
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
He's in a tight spot
sorry lol
bbiab walking to coffee
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
cool
anyway, I'm not going to speculate about what Joyent will/won't do
that's not productive, and other people are working with them who are better at it
if tomorrow Joyent put everything in a Foundation, it doesn't fix all of our problems
Alejandro Oviedo
@a0viedo
I think it's much better to put all of that effort in node-forward
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
the community has been disaffected from engaging in a large portion of the problems we face
we need the community to take responsibility and get engaged again