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Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
cool
anyway, I'm not going to speculate about what Joyent will/won't do
that's not productive, and other people are working with them who are better at it
if tomorrow Joyent put everything in a Foundation, it doesn't fix all of our problems
Alejandro Oviedo
@a0viedo
I think it's much better to put all of that effort in node-forward
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
the community has been disaffected from engaging in a large portion of the problems we face
we need the community to take responsibility and get engaged again
without that momentum we can't get anything done, with or without a foundation
Kyle Mathews
@KyleAMathews
+100
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
How can I best get involved?
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
we're still in the early stages so the most important things are
1) identifying problems and creating experiments to solve them
2) promotion and awareness
3) everyday engagement
watch the help and discussions repo
we need to get some more momentum behind the help repo, and probably some better messaging
Albert Engelbrecht
@droppedoncaprica
Ahh, i didn't even know there was a help repo haha
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
although i saw that @othiym23 created a branch so he might be working on that
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
Help is an self-support?
err as in
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
the idea is that it can replace the mailing list and IRC someday
Issues have better moderations tools, and people put reputation in to GitHub so that helps as well
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
is the vision an app? or just content?
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
it's just "a place to get help"
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
awesome
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
similar to the mailing list but without crazy people being like FIBERS!
Alejandro Oviedo
@a0viedo
lol
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
it's a bit tangential, but that issue saying "lets make node-forward not node (spidermonkey, non-async) reminded me of your blog post on promises, and fracturing the community
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
i'm not too worried about that one
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
I think that was #9
when I started reading it, I was so confused, because I was thinking "this isn't node"
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
i'd encourage that kind of experimentation, because it's so radical it has a 99% chance of failure and if it does work then it will because it is significantly better than Node, so go for it
i'd actually encourage a "new Node" that isn't compatible with Node
runtime.js is the closest thing
and it's pretty amazing actually
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
I assume you've talked to folks like Alex Gaynor and the whole python 2.7/3.0 situation
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
my guess is that once it's usable people will put work in to the next big JS platform on top of it
Alejandro Oviedo
@a0viedo
I didn't thought that starting from scratch was being considered
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
i lived through that :) 3.0 was released shortly before Node was announced and I moved
i don't think there's much value in trying to be "Node but with a different opinion"
but runtime.js is rethinking the whole idea of what a platform and operating system are
Ken Perkins
@kenperkins
this one: https://alexgaynor.net/2013/dec/30/about-python-3/ (again, I assume you've read this)
(and now you mention you lived it)
Mikeal Rogers
@mikeal
i've read it, but i think he misses the real problem
which isn't that this happened but that the community around Python core is so disconnected from what people actually use Python for that they thought it was a good idea
and that goes all the way back to the beginning of the project
in the earliest days of a project it lives as a reaction to whatever else is going on
in the case of Python it was people getting very fed up with Perl
the expressiveness was making maintaining programs way too hard
and so the community that gravitated towards Python had two core values that still persist to this day, and can probably never change