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    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    So the data is inside the function, but the output of that function is available to other parts of the program?
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    I am looking at how this is done in actual code. One of the things that is baffling for my procedurally oriented mind is seeing functions that depend on code written below them.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    I'll use some examples when I have a min.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    Actually this is seeming like an article to me. So maybe I'll think about writing one but I'll answer you're questions first.
    It strikes me that 2 things that new developers and designers using JS would get a lot of mileage out of is simply: adding and removing classes with pure JS. (I already have these functions built into the new version of the new theme) and understanding: functions, anonymous functions, iife, and the differences between function declarations, function expressions, function statements, and calling a function.
    Don't get me wrong, there are articles like that already but none that are as clear as I'd want them to be if I were learning.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    @robreed_twitter Sounds very good to me.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    There's been a lot of expansion since the last time I checked in with https://gitter.im/ode-community
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    I'm just wanted to put a few of the more obvious pieces in place.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    Hadn't been to Gitter in so long that I forgot the name for it.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    Yeah, I know what you mean. I've tried using this for a few different things and I'm not giving up on it but it's not the easiest thing to use. I find I'm a little reluctant about it.
    I think they've done a good job with Slack. I enjoy using that. But like many platforms today I don't like how they're positioning and selling it. Though the change from teams to workspaces is a step in the right direction for them.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    My company is a heavy user of Slack, but we don't pay, so we lose the history basically every day. Plus with enough people, Slack is very noisy, just like email.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter

    I don't think there can ever be just 1 tool, which is a good thing. Try to go that route and you end up with Facebook or Amazon. I'm much more in favor of the small single purpose tools used in endless combinations strategy, as I'm sure you are. Integration becomes a problem, but I think integration is overrated, and may be a red herring.

    The right tool for me is a combination of email, and some kind of group IM, and an individual IM which might be the same as the group tool, and a forum, and personal blog, and group blog, (both with comments), and some kind of aggregator, and some form of document collaboration, and version control/version history like git, and… well that's a start.

    I like Slack because it behaves the way I except it too most of the time. I like the implementation. Git on the other hand, it wants to post every time I hit return. I really don't like the way they position Slack. Although I guess people are using it more and more as a public space, but I'm not sure I understand how that works.

    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    I haven't joined any public Slacks yet, but I wonder why a Discourse forum isn't better for most things.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    I just think we should stop looking for single tools that work for every group and every kind of communication and start thinking in terms of valuing tools that work well together. IM is good. Email is good. Forums (especially Discourse) are good. But they're not all good for everything.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    New idea for Ode: Markup (standards compatible) to select a portion of a post that would be appropriate for a tweet. Also a special theme on the site that will present just that portion of each post along with a link to another theme (like the default theme) where the entire post is visible. So it's like a Twitter style UI for a site. What do you think?
    By the way do you see the other "conversations for Ode" - feature-requests etc? I'm afriad to use anything but the /Lobby because I'm afraid it's not visible.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    Rob, I haven't been on here in a long time -- I looked at your site and don't see links where users can download Ode. I'm also wondering if you have the new theme packaged in there yet.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    I just went to our Twitter DMs and found the version you sent me in February -- thanks. I'm getting ready to make my social-post site a separate one from my "traditional" site, and I wanted to use the new theme for one or both.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    I thought I had ZIP copies of the Ode software and add-ins, but I can't find them.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter

    Sounds good and a lot of work, good job.

    "but individual users would need to "register" their apps with the Twitter API."

    I hate that. (I'm using the word hate here.) That is the point at which the open web started to die. That really made me upset and I'm still very sour about it. Anyway…

    I have my usual big (small) plans for Ode. I really want it to be a bulletproof local/remote writing and publishing solution and I want to use it to get a more diverse group of voices on the web. I've heard enough from the same people, especially in tech and web design and development. My attitude at this point is basically fuck them. We've been right about a lot of things over the years while they've gone with the flow. The flow sucks.

    Anyway, I like this path you're on.

    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    Re the Twitter API, registering your app (or in my case my instance of my app) is a pain point, to be sure. A better idea is leveraging the Twitter authentication system to let the app post. I arrived where I did due to Ruby's Twitter gem. CPAN's Net::Twitter works the same way: https://metacpan.org/pod/Net::Twitter
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    The Twitter API can do a lot of things, and I'm only doing one of them (posting updates). It's likely possible to post to Facebook and other social sites in a similar manner, but my emphasis is on creating and posting that kind of update to my own sites. The Twitter posting code is really a bolt-on -- it's optional all the way through. What prompted me to include it was dlvr.it limiting the number of updates on free accounts to 10 per day. I moved my "automatic" posts from the blog to IFTTT.com and now get the Ruby script to do the social updates. I wasn't excited about paying $99.50 a year for "unlimited" dlvr.it posting from the blog to Twitter.
    Dlvr.it allows you to exclude a directory from posting to Twitter. In IFTTT, I had to code that in JavaScript. With separate Ode sites for social and not-social, I won't have that issue.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    Yeah I've played around with Net::Twitter. It's fine. I had a nice Twitter posting addin. It matained a loose connection to the Tweet by storing all of the meta-data for the tweet and allowed the user to delete the tweet and stuff like that after the fact. You could pick the part of the post you wanted to tweet. Lots of stuff like that. I'd have to dig it up.
    I think going directly with the service's API is way better than something like dlvr.it or IFTTT anyway. The fewer dependencies the better. I love the idea of having your own site and pushing content to social networks. Thats exactly how it should work. We should have independent websites and aggregators. Full stop.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    That would be great as an add-in. My idea was to do all post creation outside of Ode and have the app be a blogging client
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    I see a lot of potential in the Ode way of doing things as far as a CMS is concerned. I think you know I've started doing some teaching - I'm up to 3 classes and a weekly meetup. It's too much honestly especially considering I get paid for none of it. But it's giving me a lot of opportunity to think about stuff as has everything that's happening and not happening with social media these days. I have a good read on the situation I think. (After something like 15 years why not, right?) It doesn't mean what I think is right will "win". In fact I'm pretty sure the righter something is the less of a chance it has at "winning" (which is why I don't think we can make everything a competition).
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    I started hacking away at the old theme -- literally hacking, as in removing bits. More of that to come. Here is the site with content: http://updates.stevenrosenberg.net/cgi-bin/ode.cgi
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    The old theme is rough.
    You've really got to care about everything or it starts out ehhh and later it's like ugghhh.
    Ha.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    I forgot to turn on Markdown, I think. I'll get to that later. The new theme is so huge, I will tackle that one later.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    Huge meaning filesize?
    Page weight I mean?
    I still want to make my own version of markdown. I don't like all of the crap surrounding Markdown and the different dialects. I just want a simple lightweight markup format. I'm calling it unmarkup. I've probably told you that already.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    Re the new theme -- I mean it's a lot of files, and there are a lot of areas/sections on the page, and I will want to make it more simple.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    Gotcha. As soon as you say that I want to go make it simpler. Ha. No time at the moment but as soon as I hear that anyone is doing something with Ode, that suddenly all I want to do.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    Rob, while I was looking for .htaccess hacks, I found some things on caching. Would this work for Ode due to its dynamic nature? https://www.askapache.com/htaccess/speed-up-sites-with-htaccess-caching/
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter
    I'll have to read that thing carefully. It's pretty confusing the way it's written. Also, I think I'll have to play around with it. Most if not all of them may work for Ode depending on how clients handle expiry dates. Ode is dynamic but doesn't use query strings mostly, so if it reads an address as a page then I don't see why it wouldn't work. But one of the suggestions is to generate static pages and that's what I want to do anyway. That will work with all caching methods AND even when the cache expires visitors will hit the static pages not the script anyway. The performance for a busy site should be just about on par with a purely static site with none of the drawbacks.
    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe
    Sounds great.
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter

    Hey Steven, I'm thinking of renaming Ode, "Ebeling". Any thoughts about that? It's because of this guy Robert Ebling. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/28/464744781/30-years-after-disaster-challenger-engineer-still-blames-himself

    He kind of epitomizes how I feel about technology – Going along with what everyone is doing because everyone else seems to be OK with it is in no way OK.

    I also like that the name is easier to pronounce and kind of sounds like an open source project.

    I'm just looking for a little feedback.

    jgbrwn
    @jgbrwn
    Hello, I remember looking at Ode many years ago, and stumbled back upon ode.io, but looks like it's not available to download currently?
    Rob Reed
    @robreed_twitter

    @jgbrwn Hi. Thanks the message. Out of curiosity, what are you thinking about using Ode for?

    Yes it's not generally available at the moment. I'm working on a significant update. I'll be honest that's it's long overdue but I am committed to the project and making it more of a priority so that it gets done sooner rather than later.

    The next version will still be a Perl CGI. After that I may rewrite it for JavaScript . Not much will change about the existing functionality because honestly it works really well, and I like it. But there can be some refinements for sure and there is some much needed functionality. The goal is a platform that is (or continues to be):

    • Approachable for people new to programming
    • Bullet proof for server and local installations
    • Syncs seamlessly
    • Generates and caches pages in response to requests on the fly
    • Works with git for version control, backup, migration, and collaboration
    • Does all of the things Ode does as well or better than everything including themes for example

    Would something like that work for you?

    Thanks again! Rob

    Steven Rosenberg
    @passthejoe

    Hey Steven, I'm thinking of renaming Ode, "Ebeling". Any thoughts about that? It's because of this guy Robert Ebling. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/28/464744781/30-years-after-disaster-challenger-engineer-still-blames-himself

    Sounds good to me.